I am not the OP, this is a repost!
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NOTE: The posts were slightly edited to add paragraphs and make them easier to read.
Trigger warning: Cheating
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Original post, on relationship_advice (March 12th 2023).
M 32 Cheating Fiancée F 31
Let me start from the beginning here. Yesterday I met my fiancée at our wedding venue for our 4 month out meeting to finalize details. We drove to the venue separately because she was leaving straight from work. Towards the end of the meeting she let me know her friend was dropping off her rental car and needed a ride home and asked if it would be ok. I said yes thinking nothing of it as it wasn’t that far from our home and I know her friend well.
I get home and tried to get in touch w her for the next 3 hours. No answer. At approx the 1:30 mark I texted her friend and asked if she had made it to her ok. I was very worried. My fiancée ends up coming home and says sorry it took longer than expected she hung out with her friend for a bit before leaving. Ok no biggie just lmk next time please. Her friend gets back to me a few minutes later and says “sorry I couldn’t make it to the venue didn’t see your fiancée tonight.” I asked her why she would say this and she said she didn’t know she can’t control what her friend says and walked outside. I’m sketched out af by this point.
I have never done this but I looked at her phone records (yes I did and don’t regret it). I saw that when she went outside she called her friend that had texted me right after she went outside. I also saw an hour long call with a number I didn’t know on the way to the venue. I asked her what rental place they went to and multiple other questions. She had quick answers and they seemed legit. I thought maybe I’m crazy here I need to chill and sleep on it. This morning I asked her to please see the text from her friend asking her to pick her up and I would apologize for questioning her the previous night. She said no.
I said when I caught up to you yesterday on the way to the venue I saw you were on the phone who was that? She said oh that’s the friend I picked up later on. That’s when I knew for a fact she was lying. I said I looked at her phone records and knew that wasn’t true. She then changed her story to say oh I needed to meet up w a coworker to discuss a patient. Who is the coworker and why couldn’t you discuss that over the phone? I need to show him the techniques in person his name is Michael. Ok I am sketched out beyond belief at this point we never lie to each other. I asked to see the texts with Michael. She said wouldn’t let me see. I said why not if there’s nothing to hide. Are you having an affair? Do you not want to be together anymore? She pauses and proceeds to tell me all the things that are wrong with me. I work too much I don’t spend enough time w her don’t listen.
I’m astonished at this point all of this is news to me. I put two and two together at this point I know something sketchy is going on. I again ask to see the texts. It took about a half hour of convincing to see these texts and they were crazy. Sexual in nature and talking a lot of shit about me. Also how she wanted to be with him and how they’re essentially in love. She started this job 1.5 months ago (he is her coworker). He is also 15-20 years older and divorced w multiple kids. I have been financially supporting her for the last few months as she got back on her feet and was working extra so she wouldn’t have to pick up a part time job. We own a house which we both live in with 3 dogs and a horse. Sorry for the novel I am beside myself right now. I did not see this coming and we were going to get married in 4 months. Any advice would help.
UPDATE:
As an update, I was finally able to sit down with her tonight and go over this. Again, she came in trying to blame me for what she did. Trying to justify the cheating and lying as a direct result of my lack of communication and listening. She said she wouldn’t have had to start talking to this guy if I had been listening better. I spend too much time in the office working and don’t dedicate enough time to her. I tried to explain that I was putting in extra hours to try and support her and the family financially while she was struggling so she wouldn’t have to get a part time job. She said she would have rather gotten a part time job which makes no sense to me. She was under the impression that because this was short lived (one week she say) and “they only made out once” that we could move past this.
When I brought up the texts where she was trashing me and talking sexual with him she deflected hard and I got nowhere with that. I told her that I’m not the reason that this is happening. She went too far and should have communicated with me or thought about the implications first. That I can never trust her again and this is all because of her actions. Whether she wants to try and justify this as my fault is up to her. At the end of this part it got a bit calmer - I said listen we just really need to figure out the house we own jointly and the three dogs. We came to the conclusion that Either I stay and buy her out or we sell and get new places. The dogs - one of us will get one the other two tbd.
So that’s where this left off tonight and will continue to keep you all posted on progress. Curious what you all would do about the house. Financially I can support it alone but it is nearly 3k square feet and 5 acres of land which was bought solely to have her horse. She is taking the horse when she leaves and boarding it at a barn.
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Notable comments:

Jesus, I'm so sorry. Small consolation I know, but better now than after the wedding. Better now than after potentially starting a family. [link]

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Standard cheater victim-blaming. Don't let her pin this on you, OP. YOU DESERVE BETTER.
Cancel all vendors, notify invited guests, lock down your credit, or shared finances.
Are you sure AP is divorced? He may be lying to your STBX, or she may be lying to you. Either way, it sounds like she cheated down and screwed up royally.
It sucks, but it's better to know now than 10 years down the road. I'm sorry you got blindsided like this, and I hope it gets better soon. [link]

OOP replies:
I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and for the advice. I have no idea if he is truly divorced and honestly don’t want to know more about the guy. The saddest thing about this is my dogs love each other and will most likely be broken apart. Agree better to know now

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Her attitude about being caught tells you everything you need to know. Blaming you for her shitty behavior shows that she has no character and would make an awful partner. [link]

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First of all, implement the 180 and gray rock method.
The financial support for her should stop immediately.
You will need a lawyer to deal with the house and ask them how you can legally leverage the HR angle in your negotiations.
She has shown her true colors and is acting horrible. That relationship will crash and burn, and she will then start begging to come back.
Sending strength! [link]

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Yeah do not marry this woman. Surely this isn’t still a consideration is it? [link]

OOP replies:
Not at all my friend. You all have been super helpful in reinforcing this

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Update post, on relationship_advice (March 12th 2023).
UPDATE: M 32 Cheating Fiancée F 31
Day 3: I was able to sit and have a 3 hour conversation with her tonight. We talked about our relationship and what lead to what occurred. It started with her telling me what I did wrong in our relationship, lack of communication, spending too much time working and on my phone. I don't disagree with any of these things. My mindset behind working so much was support of the family. I run an e commerce business on the side and am a one man customer service center and deals happen 24 hours a day. I am never not on the clock. I could have certainly been better about setting my phone aside and responding to people the next day. The lack of communication was on both ends and a prime example of this is the fact that I was unaware she was unhappy with any of this. It was never communicated to me. She said she felt I would have gotten upset if she told me but never gave me the chance to work on it. I am not a perfect person by any means and many times I do or say things that are misinterpreted by her as rude.
An example of this is a week or two ago I was trying to help her with a budget with her financial problems to try to set up a plan to get her on track. To note - I work in the financial industry and do this for clients all the time. She had mentioned that she owed me maybe $1,000 and she would get that back to me next paycheck. I said something like I think its a little bit more than that lets go through the transfers I have made to our joint account. It ended up being over $5,000. My purpose for doing this was not to make her feel bad but to realize how much I have been contributing. She took this as me trying to humiliate her. Was just trying to help and maybe my timing was off. She told me I have been too focused on money lately but I was only trying to make sure we were going to be ok. We still had quite a bit to pay for the wedding and my budgeting mentality was on overload trying to make sure we had enough.
The fact that she keeps trying to justify what she did by attributing that as a direct correlation to my flaws really bothers me. She keeps telling me that she is surprised I would throw away 7 years of a relationship away like this. I keep having to remind her that I didn't throw it away - she did with her actions. She told me that I told too many people too quickly and we could have resolved all of this between us. She also said that she wouldn't have had to talk to someone else if I was a better listener and communicator.
I have finally determined the extent of the affair which I actually believe based on the texts that I read. They began talking 1-2 weeks before via text. I don't know if they had met up before outside of work but this time around he had asked her to the park to play basketball and talk. She met up with him and they ended up making out. I truly believe it didn't go further than this YET. BUT, it would have in the near future I am sure. She says he is not her boyfriend. She also took off tonight and I have no idea where she is at - assuming with him or a girl friend.
It is an awkward living situation but I am hoping this resolves in the near term. I do think she wants me to get back with her and try to repair that. I think that the the main issue was a lack of communication that manifested for a long time. We got into a routine, lived our boring simple life and meanwhile this problem was never discussed and grew over time. She acted out instead of talking to me and also lied to my face/talked a lot of shit about me behind my back. She can be very sneaky and I don't think I can fully trust her again. Obviously this would be the easiest thing to do but I don't think I would ever be truly happy.
Understanding the root cause has helped me feel better. If nothing else, it will allow me to address my personality flaws/communication issues and see things from another perspective. I started hitting the gym today and will keep a routine going. I also plan on picking back up on studying for my CFP designation. I took the week off of work to focus on my mental health.
Today I called the wedding venue and officially cancelled the date. We were able to get some money back but lost a bit unless the date can be resold to another couple (unlikely). I also spoke with her parents again to keep them apprised. They live far away and I am sure are worried sick. I continue to let them know everything is fine and calm and they don't need to worry about their daughter.
I did some research and with interest rates where they are today I will not be able to find a comparable house for the mortgage I pay for this (can barely find an apartment for less nowadays). I think my best option is to try and buy out her share and have her find an apartment. She seems agreeable at this time. We will have an appraiser out to assess value and see what half of the equity would be and if that is doable for me.
My questions to you all are: Does this change your mind at all about the situation? Am I handling this properly? If not, what should I be doing different?
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Notable comments:

At this point - I would stop giving her the platform to tell you that her cheating is 'because of you.' It's not. She chose to cheat. Instead of being an adult and having adult conversations in an adult relationship, she chose to cheat. The moment any of that shit escapes her lips - shut it down. She doesn't deserve to have your ear. She's hoping that if she says it enough, you'll start to believe it. Shut it down. 'Conversations are hallmarks of a relationship. You chose to cheat. It's over.' Rinse. Recycle. Repeat as necessary (personally, I'd be done with any conversing).
I hope the house thing works out. [link]

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You have so many things that you need to get over before this relationship can be recovered. So in no particular order you have the following to consider.
- She is trickle truthing you and the chances that she is still not being honest with you are high. The simplest way to put it is the time honored axiom that "kids kiss, adults fuck". Unless she can be completely honest with you - even knowing that it may hurt you to know the truth - any trust you have in her will be non-existent.
- She has leapt straight into DARVO (Deny, attack, reverse Victim and Offender). This is sadly a classic cheaters move and you can see this quite clearly in trying to pin the blame for her actions on you. Sorry but you didn't magically hand her a card saying "please cheat on me, I'm a bad fiance". She did this of her own accord, for her own reasons and because even though she knew it was wrong, she did it anyway. None of this is on you.
- Even when the chips are down and your engagement is in the balance, she chose him over you and continues to choose him over you. At a time when you would expect that she would pull out all stops to be with you, she has decided - for whatever reason - to continue seeing him. Anyone in her position who feared the loss of their partner would be bending over backwards to show you that she is not who you think she is. Sadly, she has done the exact opposite and is doing all in her power to drive you further apart.
- She doesn't want you to "throw away 7 years of a relationship away like this" but isn't that exactly what she is doing by her actions? What did she expect would happen if she hooks up with a guy she has just met at the expense of the person she is supposed to marry? Sorry but no, she has thrown away 7 years, not you, her.
- Her lack of honesty to your face is now being backed up by a complete lack of respect for you. How someone can go from "yes I will marry you" to "nah, you never made me happy and this new guy I just met can" is not the way to build a life of joy and happiness on. Hell, if it was a house any right minded civil engineer would condemn the building before the foundations had a chance to dry. The foundations of this relationship are now in the realm of a sand pit in a swamp.
- The sum result of her blaming you has you now questioning your role in her affair. This is by design and is something that all cheaters do when faced with the consequences of their actions. She wants you to blame yourself so that you can play her game of "pick me". Now that you no longer wish to play she'll easily move onto the new guy and will not give you a second thought. For now.
As you say, you have taken action and have cancelled the wedding and stopped your engagement. You are handling this properly and you need to make it clear to her that once the sole thing keeping you together is dealt with - the sale/transfer of the house, that she will be out of your life forever.
So are you throwing away 7 years? No, you had it thrown away for you and you are just sweeping up the mess left behind by her actions.
For now, keep all communication between you restricted purely to the asset split. Tell her absolutely nothing about your plans, what you are doing in your life, etc. She lost that right when she did what she did. And if she tries to fill you in on what she has been doing, just pull her up with the simple phrase "I no longer care what you do, it's no longer my business."
"Understanding the root cause has helped me feel better."
But please also understand that there are no "root causes" for why she did what she did. That is all on her, on her own personal flaws in her character and morals and you had absolutely nothing to do with it. As you said yourself, she is very sneaky and this is just who she is.
So get your agreement done asap and even if you take a small loss and end up with a few months of eating ramen to pay her out, you will end up ahead.
And then once it's all done, start working towards being as indifferent to her as you possibly can be. [link]

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NOTE: Please remember the brigading rule and refrain from reaching out to OP or comment on the original posts.
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Friendly reminder that I am NOT the OP, this is a repost.

Originally posted by u/watermelonedbison12 in AmItheAsshole on Jan 20, '23, updated March 9th
Original Post
AITA for not asking my girlfriends father for permission to marry her?
So I feel like the normal situation I read about is the opposite situation, but I personally feel I am in the right here.
I (30M) been dating my girlfriend(29F) for 4 years now, and things have all in all been pretty good. We both don't see eye to eye politically on many things with her father, but still visit him and her mother fairly frequently around holidays and he is friendly enough to know to not bring up politics around the both of us because we don't agree, but I digress.
I've talked about proposing to my girlfriend over the past couple months and about what she wants etc, and she mentioned she wanted me to ask her dad for permission. I was kind of taken aback by this isn't a normal thing my girlfriend would say. So I asked why? She said because it's something she would like me to do, her sisters husband did it, and some wedding funding from him would likely be contingent on me doing this.
I came back with that I wouldn't be asking another person person for permission to marry her. It's an extremely outdated tradition for one, and I'm a 30 year old person, I can do what I want to do with someone I love. I don't need anyone else's permission.
She got mad and said I just needed to do it, because it's a small thing to ask for, and she wants some of the money to have a few more things at our wedding that we won't be able to afford without it.
I'm continuing to stand my ground about not asking for this. AITA?
Judgment: Not Assholes Here
Update 2 months later
Hi yall.
Original post is here. AITA didn't allow me to post my update there, so putting it here.
So after reading a lot of the responses in the original thread, I decided to ask for my girlfriends parents blessing. I told her I was going to do it and she was very happy. We were going to visit about 2 weeks after I posted the thread, and I figured it would be a good opportunity to ask.
So my fiancée went for a run one morning and I was lounging around talking with her parents, when I said I’d like to talk to them about something. They both kind of smiled like they knew what I was going to say, and immediately her dad says “let’s go talk in the garage”. So him and I go out there and I phrase it like some people told me to “I want to marry your daughter and I’m letting you know that I plan to propose because I love her. I also want to get your blessing because I respect you and your wife”. He was pleased with the answer and smiled and gave his approval for me to propose.
All I needed! The proposal went great about a month later. Romantic and just like I had planned, my fiancée loved it.
So this past Sunday we were discussing venues and the ceremony and my fianceé casually said "Well Dad wants us to get married in this church so we’ll be doing it here”. Now I’m not religious and I wouldn’t mind getting married in a church, but again, why does his opinion matter for our wedding? So I asked "Anything else your dad wants for our wedding?" and then said we also needed to stay in separate rooms the night before our wedding too per her father (hilarious since we've been living together for almost 2 years).
This lead to a massive argument about the wedding, the role of her dad in her life. I told her that up until a couple of months ago, it seemed liked she couldn't have cared less about what her dad thought. But would it stop with the wedding? Would it continue on if we had children?
Her excuse was that, she was ruining her dream wedding and it was contingent on appeasing her father. She didn't understand why I couldn't compromise and get her the extra cash to get her the wedding she had always dreamed of.
So I told her, I'm not ready to get married if this is the stance you're going to take with your father and that did not go over well. The yelling started and things started being thrown at me...
So I left. I called my buddy and went to his place. He gladly let me come over. I've got tons of missed calls from her, some texts ranging from "I miss you, let's talk it out" to "you're an abuser trying to separate me from my family". I just honestly don't know where this behavior is coming from. It's like my fianceé has been taken over by some bridezilla that only cares about having a perfect wedding. I'm just taking time to think about everything and what I want to do next.
I'll maybe update again after this, but for now, things aren't looking too great for the future of our relationship. Just trying to keep my head above water.
Reminder, DO NOT comment on the original posts or contact the original poster. I am not the original poster. This is a repost.

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/ThrowRaChoChang
When my husband (38m) suggested open marriage (40f), My marriage ended in my heart.
Originally posted to relationship_advice
OriginalPost March 4, 2023
He just asked me out of the blue about 7-8 months ago and my initial reaction was am I not enough for him? I mean yes, I know I could made more effort, lose these last stubborn 5lbs, maybe put on sexy lingerie more often and I don't know, spend less time with our babies and not to sleep halfway through our movie night on Fridays but it still came as a shock to me that he wasn't satisfied with our life. I thought we had a solid foundation of mutual love and respect and we both have high sex drive. He explained that it had nothing to do with our love life or relationship. This could just be something more to add for the both of us. My marriage died then and there, in my heart at least. I didn't want to make any rash decisions while heartbroken and act without thinking carefully first. I said no and that it was nothing I ever wanted to try. He said that it was fine and that he loved me immensely.
Now months have gone and I have been thinking carefully but my initial feeling that my marriage died isn't changing. He has noticed and even complained that I have been distant and that he wanted me back but I don't know, I don't think it is working for me anymore with what my husband suggested looming between us even if he hasn't approached me with his suggestion again. It is not just the feeling of inadequacy that is putting a wedge between us, but the thought that he can imagine another man being with me. Touching, kissing and being inside me without it making him sick with jealousy. I even think this part hurt me more than him wanting to sleep with others.
We have two children together, 4 and 1 and our marriage is working very well. We are compatible in every other aspect and our babies are happy. How can I ask for divorce knowing that nothing will be the same for my babies anymore? I need advice on how to move on with him with all these feelings inside of me. I can't just divorce a man for asking me something and then respecting me when I said no. I. Just. Can't.
RELEVANT COMMENTS
slow_and_steady_win

Everyone is different. I am not in an open relationship, but we are swingers, and we live perfectly fine. I love my wife with all my heart and could never see myself with another person.
Maybe seek therapy. I don't think he is a bad person or loves you any less. I know this because he had enough respect for you to bring this up instead of just cheating on you.

OOP replied

I respect your way of life, but I don't want to live like you no matter how much you love it. I don't want a husband who is ok with sharing me. I know it is a kink and many men even gets turned by the idea, but these men are not my type. this is a real turn off for me both sexually and relationshipy

JohannVII

"I don't want a husband who is ok with sharing me."
That is very different than saying you want a husband who is interested in monogamy.
_You_want a possessive, controlling husband who would categorically not be okay with you exercising sexual agency if sex with other people were what you wanted. You want an abusive relationship - you need psychotherapy.

OOP replied

lol haha you try so hard to make your lifestyle the superior one. it wasn't enough that I said I respected the way you view love and sex even if it wasn't for me, no, you felt the need to shit on the way I want to live and love to feel good about yourself.
I know many poly people and people in open relationships that are very abused and in very abusive relationships so take it down a notch :) nobody is perfect. what you offer is not what I want. it is a huge turn off for me. this is the whole point of my post. I'm turned off by my husbands request.

Update March 11, 2023
I want to start by thanking everyone who wanted to help me. I really appreciate you. Before I update, I wanted to maybe apologize for the poly people who found my post (offensive?) I don't know but seeing that I was very clear in my post that your lifestyle wasn't for me I don't know why you still made superior comments about how better off you are and even making it sound like wanting a monogamous husband equals wanting an abusive possessive husband? In what delusional world are you living? You know how many poly men/women I know who are in very abusive relationships? Why do you feel the need to shit on other peoples choices to feel better about yours? What am I missing here?
Anyway, I don't know about my feelings. I have spoken to my husband about how I was feeling. I told him how I was turned off by the whole thing and that even if he respected my NO, something has broken inside of me and I that I don't know how to mend it. How to find my way back. I told him that even though he would fully promise that he chosen me and the life we have together, I will always know that this is not really what he wanted. I told him that the thought of him being okay with sleeping with others, and the thought of him being ok that me, his wife, being in someone else's arms makes me sick every time I think about it. I also asked him whether he was already sleeping with others/or have had someone in mind. He swore up and down that this wasn't the case and gave me all his devices to check. He just wanted to try open marriage because and I will paraphrase here "monogamy worked when people died when they were 40 but now when we live till we are 80-90 maybe it wasn't enough" I'm the love of his life and that won't change but do we want to be exclusive for 40,50, 60 years? I asked him why he just doesn't want to commit to just me, until one or both fall out of love and we go our separate way but he said that he didn't want to fall tout f love. He wanted us to be together because he loves our life but also we could se other people so it doesn't get boring.
I told him that the life he is dreaming of isn't the life I wanted at all. He was very alarmed and said that in that case he chose me and our family. He would do anything to gain back my trust including therapy. I will try that as last resort but to be totally honest, I think we are over. I just don't want to throw in the towel without exhausting all options because I want to look back and know that I did everything in my power to save my marriage. I have even contemplated giving him a pass to open the relationship on his end but then I'm not sure if I could still be intimate with him and then what kind of a marriage would that be? I know this is just an update but please if you have more just hit me.
RELEVANT COMMENTS
ZombieZookeeper

The poly people who harassed you can go fuck themselves. You made it clear that you didn't want this.

OOP replied

yeah, I didnt appreciate their comments at all =/ I mean if I was ok with that then what's the problem? And to actually be offended that I don't want poly is another level of stupid

Serenity700

Does he know how close to over your relationship is?

OOP replied

well, he asked me a couple of times if I'm planning to leave him and I answered honestly each time. I love you but I don't see ourselves as "us" anymore. I will always wonder if what we are is enough for you. He kept saying that he is sorry and that it was all a stupid suggestion but I think he is just desperate to keep the marriage up

I am not The OOP

I am not OOP. OOP is u/Planetsahead. She posted in AmItheAsshole and her own page. Previous parts of this story have been posted before and are included below. NEW UPDATE IS STARRED.
Part 1 (BORU): Posted December 9, 2021
Part 2 (BORU): Posted December 9. 2021
The TLDR of the first two posts was written by u/tequilitas, who wrote the other BORUs:
OOP's BIL starts peeing on her things and cat, then also puts his bodily fluids all over his own cat and photos of his nieces. OOP is horrified and the inlaws (mainly brothers) come into action. It turns out the BIL is VERY mentally ill, he has very misogynistic views and there is a belief it all came from him being bullied by his brothers growing up. There were sisters in the family but they all died by the time of the Peegate.
MIL had already sent BIL to therapy for 3 years but he pocketed the money and pretended to do therapy when he was just hanging out with a friend. BIL had a very unhealthy dependency with Ted (OOP's husband) and was somehow jealous of OOP. BIL is committed and it seems he was having a psychotic break. After many confrontations and seeking refuge at her parents house, OOP is told by Ted he wants a divorce to "prevent his family hurting her anymore". OP and Ted divorce, she is in therapy, Ted is in therapy, basically everybody is in therapy.
One of the brothers is making sure the BIL will never have access to animals ever again. OOP and Tortilla (her cat) are trying to move on with their life and look for a better future.
Editor's note:
I will also add that Ted has 8 older brothers and Ash is his youngest brother. The abuse Ash suffered from some of his older brothers was very extreme, and Ted was always his protector. That may help to understand some of the psychology behind this.
Most Recent Post before this one: (I edited it to only include relevant info and to fit the character limit, but Ellie is very kind and thankful to people for help)
Update V: Peemen tell no tales (Apr 9, 2022)
The last time I wrote was just before the holidays, and I'll admit my holiday plans were not the brightest in hindsight. I know in my last update I said that I wouldn't just sit on the couch and wallow in self pity but take a wild guess at exactly what I did. I honestly wasn’t up to celebrating, my family is really into christmas and happiness and joy and i didn’t want to bring the mood down so i told my dad I was spending it with a friend who recently lost her husband (she went out of state to be with his parents) and I just stayed home with Tortilla watching movies.
Ted called me christmas day, and for the very first time I didn't answer. Are you all super proud of me? I definitely felt that you guys would be after so many of you agreed that i should cut him off completely but please accept my baby steps, i just couldn’t bring myself to go cold turkey from my best friend even after everything that happened. He texted me later in the day to check in and make sure that i was alright, saying he saw my sister’s photos on facebook and noticed i wasn’t there.
Should I ask my sisters to block him? He loves them and they love him, before everything went down he truly was an amazing guy, and even now after everything he’s still doing his best. I don’t know if it’s how I write or when I write, or maybe it’s me being biased by our relationship but Ted is not as horrible as some of you paint him to be. He’s also going through something incredibly traumatic and having to face head on everything his family did is not easy.
I sat on his text for a few hours thinking what to reply and honestly came up empty handed. I was not alright but all in all he’s still the person who knows me best, the 10 years we spent together weren’t wasted time, we didn’t break it off because we fell out of love but because it’s what was best for both of us.
You guys get to read my updates from a point of privilege in a sense, you’re not the ones whose lives got destroyed and went from one “happy” family to being completely on your own. I had my family and you to fall back on but Ted didn’t. Some of his brothers hate him even more now because of all of this, he lost his best friend and little brother, he lost his partner, he lost Tortilla too, and even though it’s a good riddance he also lost his mom.
It’s easy to villainize him and think him some monster for hurting me because you only know my side of the story and the tid bits i share with you but he’s still a person, he also got incredibly hurt throughout this whole ordeal and he’s human and he’s bound to make mistakes even though i don’t think us getting divorced will ever count as a mistake to him.
I ended up just writing back something along the lines of ‘Wasn’t up for a party so just stayed in with Tortilla. Merry christmas’ and I guess he knew something was wrong and came to my park. He knows the overall area where i live and the lovely park that i frequent and he asked me to meet him which I did. Yes, you can be less proud of my microachievement that day but once again baby steps.
We talked for a few hours. I didn’t know he was spending christmas by himself otherwise I probably would’ve liked to spend it with him or at the very least I would've invited him to my parents. A lot of you have insisted that cutting him off completely would be best but I disagree. I might change my mind later on but for now i think we still need each other a little bit.
Each day I do think I need him a little bit less but that day I needed him and some days he needs me too. I’d like to think we can be friends but i know that long term that’s might not be sustainable, at some point he’ll find a next partner and they probably won’t like me much, or maybe we’ll grow apart, maybe one day i’ll hate him for everything that happened, but for right now he’s helped me in ways that others can’t.
It might sound stupid on my end but i don’t think anyone other than him truly understands who i am right now. I am not the same person I was before everything went down, I'm not even the same person I was a year ago. Going through this whole thing with his family changed both of us a lot and not everyone gets it or understands why I'm not comfortable bringing kids to the bathroom or why I had to go home sick when my boss gave me sunflowers on international women’s day.
I do think that we both lost parts of ourselves that were perhaps a bit too naive and we’ve both grown in ways neither of us expected to have to grow but that have grounded us a bit. I’ve lived a very very privileged and sheltered life and even though I lost some of the sunshine that filled me, I feel like this new shade has helped me connect with people a lot more and understand their struggles in a more empathetic way, or at the very least I'd like to think so. Maybe that’s just what going to therapy does for you in which case I definitely suggest everyone to go to therapy peeman or not.
All in all I think we’re both doing a little bit better. Tortilla is doing great, apart from a little health scare she is per usual doing great. Our new place has a lot of windows which means a lot of sunny patches which she is enjoying thoroughly.
Ted went no contact with most of his family and is currently low contact with B4 and B6 so i don’t really have anything to tell you about Ash or the rest of the brothers other than B6 who is really sad that Ted is keeping his distance from him specifically since he also cut off mostly everyone but he says he understands and that he’ll be there for him whenever he is ready.
It was brought up quite a few times that what was always referred to as bullying was actually abuse and I do think it’s important to use that word when describing their childhood. I think precisely part of the problem that caused the house of cards to come down was the dismissive way everyone went about it and how much they all (including Ted and Ash) downplayed it as either boys will be boys, brothers are like that, or simply I thought it was normal. I think if any of the wives or I had known the extent of things in their childhood perhaps a lot of different decisions would have been made. Of course my ex MIL is a lot to blame for that but well i guess we’ve all learnt from it.
I don’t think i’m ready to date yet, i think i need to learn to be alone first. I was with Ted since college and it’s been quite some time since. I don’t even think I know how to do a first date anymore but I'm sure I'll be able to google it whenever I get there. It’s been weird adapting to solitude. I don’t want to call it loneliness because sometimes it’s nice you know? I’ll finish a book and close it and the place will be quiet and not in an eerie way but somehow comforting.
I’ve had to learn a lot which made me realize how heavily I relied on others to help me with things that I always could've done myself. I changed a tire for the first time! It was a scary experience because my tire popped on a highway but I did it. I learnt that different plants have different care requirements after killing a bunch but now I have a little basil that’s doing great. I learnt that I actually don’t really care for action movies, the high speed and constant pressure is not something I enjoy. I learnt to cook shrimp, Ted is allergic so we never had any at home. Pro tip, don’t forget to devein your shrimp.
There are also things that I miss about being with Ted, I had to drive myself to the emergency room after missing a carrot with a knife and I think that hospitals should have valet options. Tortilla had a health scare and being alone in the waiting room was truly awful. The death anniversary of a childhood friend came and went and he wasn’t there to comfort me. I also really really dislike mopping and I'm stuck having to do it myself.
That’s about it I think. I haven’t seen Ted since christmas though we do still text each other very so often and have called each other a few times but we’re learning to be apart without withdrawing all of our support at once. We are still healing, I am still healing but now I can confidently say that I can see a bright side when before it was just kinda living one day at a time? I don’t know if that makes sense. Ted’s birthday is coming up. I don’t think I'll go see him but I'll ask his friends to make sure he’s not alone. I’ve been toying with the idea of adopting an elder cat for him, he always felt so strongly about them and i think it’d be good for him but i don’t want to overstep. What do you guys think?
*****Newest Update: February 11, 2023****\*
Title: Peegate update VI: Return of the Peeman
Hello lovely people of Reddit. How are you? Almost an entire year has gone by and i hope that we have all grown older and wiser. It’s endearing to know that even after all this time there’s still people following me and sending me heartwarming messages and comments. Also, thank you? To whomever reported me to RedditCare. I didn’t even know that was a service they offered. It was, I hope, from a place of caring and concern. I guess at some point the story made it into tiktok? So hello to all of those who came from there. At this point I’m expecting aol chatrooms or yahoo answers were to show up.
The new 20’s are kicking my ass and not in a particularly positive way, i cannot wait for this decade to be over. A redditor called my last update a holiday special and it made me laugh, i don’t think they meant it kindly but it just struck me funny because i am an absolute sucker for the hallmark channel, so here I am again after the holidays.
For my haters (and those who don’t wanna sit for a half hour monologue), here’s the TL;DR: I got a robot mop, my basil died, things started to look somewhat normal, my ex-husband tried to kill himself, and now i’m back living at my parents.
I’ve highlighted the bits mentioned in the TL;DR in case you want to skip to parts, but now for the longer version of events not necessarily in chronological order:
My life saving robot mop and my dying basil :
At the suggestions of multiple redditors i got myself a steam mop at first. It definitely helped but I still had to go through the motions of mopping and the floor still being a little damp and my socks getting wet is what bothers me about mopping, so at the suggestion of other redditors i got a robot mop! I have a roomba i just didn’t know they also made mop versions. It’s perfect and i love it. I run her while i’m out for the day and i come home to nicely fresh dry floors and it’s the best feeling in the world.
My little basil plant died, i think it’s my fault because i moved it from where i had it in the kitchen and it was getting more light than before but it’s dead. I did make a really nice pasta salad with the last of it (orzo with cherry tomatoes, mozzarella balls, olive oil, salt and basil. Super simple and delicious). I was gifted a few miniature rose plants, thoroughly killed all of them in a few months and kinda gave up on live greenery.
Life going back to somewhat normal and my internal monologuing ramblings:
Life sucks and then you die. One of my sisters has always been attached to that saying and i think that the beauty of it is that it can be interpreted in so many different ways. She sees it as a reminder not to focus on the bad things for you never know when you will die, but right now i feel it a bit more literally. I believe the romanticized saying of when it rains, it pours comes from a similar sentiment.
I went on a date, a friend of mine set me up with a coworker of his and it was weird. I don’t know if i’ve always been this awkward or if first dates as a rule are awkward or if we simply didn’t click with each other but i just spent the entire dinner with this feeling of fight or flight? The guy was lovely, I don’t know, maybe we should’ve just done something less formal than dinner? I haven’t had a first date in so many years. I guess people nowadays do coffee instead and I should have gone that way, or maybe i wasn’t ready yet.
My new (not new anymore but the one i got after everything happened) job is lovely. My boss doesn’t gift me flowers anymore. I don’t know if he’s perceptive and saw what happened last year and got the hint or if someone mentioned something but now when everyone else gets flowers I get lamps. I know it sounds random but I love lamps and light up things. In the past year he has given me a little cat night light that brings me so much joy, also some fairy lights and one of those himalayan rock salt lamps. He’s a great guy and I really appreciate the effort.
My workmates are great and the work we do is both fun and fulfilling which is something I didn't have before. I used to have 2 jobs, one fulfilling and one to pay the bills. It’s crazy to have one that does both and it makes me feel like I wasted so much time of my life in my previous one, so that’s a silver lining of everything.
Tortilla is doing great, she now has to eat prescription food and is very unhappy about it even though it’s been months. The winter is always a little rough on her because she gets extra fluffy and you can tell it bothers her so tis’ the season for more brushing and deshedding. If you have long haired pets I do recommend the furminator but amazon has cheaper comparable alternatives. She is getting older so I do what I can to make sure she’s comfortable. One of my sisters got a kitten and we watch him while she’s out of town and Tortilla absolutely adores him. Matcha (the kitten) doesn’t love all of the grooming she gives him and pretends not to like her but if she’s asleep he’ll go and cuddle with her but if she wakes up first he’ll run away.
I’m rambling perhaps because i don’t know where to start or what to tell and It’s also scary in a sense because i know certain people keep tabs on me through this account, and i don’t care if they do but it still feels odd. Kinda like the feeling you get when you know someone is watching you from afar. I don’t know if that’ll make sense to you guys but yeah anyway.
When i’m feeling particularly masochistic i’ll read comments on places where the peeman saga has been shared, most of you on my own threads are absolutely lovely and supportive, but outside of my own virtual walls is where people share the harsher opinions. As I mentioned, it’s masochistic and unhealthy and I know it and my therapist knows it but it also grounds me a bit and helps me see things from perspectives i hadn’t considered.
For example, someone called me deranged for being so obsessed over cats. I hadn’t really noticed but a good portion of my updates do revolve around cats and cat wellbeing. This is because I, in fact, do love cats. That person said i showed more empathy towards cats than i did towards Ash or my family in law, or even Ted. and yeah, a little. Consider me sociopathic if you’d like but domesticated animals in general do not have a say in what goes on in their lives, we as pet owners make the decisions for them and try to make the best ones that we can. But in regards to Sunny, yes, i absolutely and to this day will always feel more empathy for her than for anyone else involved because she was helpless, there was no other option for her, no safe place, and no one to advocate for her. Even if you take out the sentimental component and my attachment to cats, from a humane standpoint it was still awful and there is a reason why animal cruelty charges were considered.
Other comments said i was over victimizing myself, that what i went through was truly nothing and i’m just dramatic (which maybe i am a little) and that the true victims were x or y or z. I think each person involved in this whole ordeal is a victim in one way or another, but being a victim in your own story does not trump you being a villain in someone else’s. Take my ex-mil for example, she is the person who has gotten the least amount of sympathy in everything i’ve read but her husband was a pos, he was an abusive father and husband, i know her upbringing was less than stellar and has a lot of unresolved trauma with the death of her daughters. Does it excuse her behavior? No. Does it explain it a little bit? Maybe. Does it make better all of the damage she caused? Definitely no.
Ash was a victim of an incredibly abusive childhood, but part of the reason why this caught everyone by surprise and why everything went downhill so fast is because he was very well put together, or at least he was incredible at managing or hiding away his feelings. He has an engineering degree from a recognized university, he had a stable job and successful life after he graduated. Everything went down with the pandemic and the isolation.
I don’t know, and i’ve thought about this a lot, but i do wonder if there had been no pandemic what would’ve happened. Would Ash not have snapped? Would something else have triggered him? Would someone else open the skeleton closet? The imaginary what ifs are their own adventure, i have pictured so many different ‘lives’ with happy, sad and tragic endings. I am aware that it’s not good to fixate on those but sometimes i envy the possibilities.
I will admit though that in my wildest imaginations i did not quite ever picture Ted dying. (He is not dead, let me preface with that, he is doing okay right now). Please remember that while all of this is written from my perspective, the real person in the middle of it was Ted, i was just a casualty.
It took many many therapy sessions to come to terms that it wasn’t really my fault, i was just the unfortunate one to have drawn the short stick. What made Ash be the way he ended up was the years of abuse and dismissive attitude from their family and one way or another that would’ve come out regardless of my involvement. I’d like to imagine something somehow would’ve convinced him to go to a real therapist and it would have been dealt with in a safe healthy way but i guess we’ll never know. The one thing i have come to be thankful for is that it was me that broke the camel’s back and not B1’s daughter. Things would have been drastically different and much more horrifying.
Ted (also TW)
So as you all remember I kinda kept in touch with B6 after the divorce but after the suggestion of many of you and a lot of people in my life i kinda took a step back and distanced myself from him. A few months after I got contacted by B6 asking me if i had heard from Ted recently, which i hadn’t and he explained that some family stuff had gone down (he didn’t explain what nor did i ask) and that a lot of them had tried to reach out to him but nobody had succeeded. He told me he was worried and that he was making plans to come to our city to check in on him and to let him know if i heard from him.
I know Ted was deliberately keeping his family at a distance, including B6 so it didn’t really strike me as odd that they hadn’t heard from him, but to give credit when it’s due it’s not like Ted to just ignore a family emergency. I shot him a message letting him know that B6 had contacted me looking for him but i didn’t hear back from him. At that point Ted and i had distanced ourselves from each other (like it had been suggested over and over in my multiple updates) so it also wasn’t alarming when he didn’t reply back but he did read my message.
Fast forward about 2 weeks or so and B6 tells me he’s in town and would like to meet me. I said yes because i missed him and asked him to dinner at this new place that i thought he’d like and he said no, just coffee. That was weird because B6 is a massive foodie and he never turns down new restaurants but i figured he was in town only for a few days and wanted to spend more time with Ted.
We met at my park and honestly he looked rough, i just remember taking a step back and this feeling of dread. You know when you know a person is going to give you bad news? To be absolutely honest i thought he was going to tell me that Ash was back in town but he just looked so ready to give up.
He told me that a few more things had come to light in the family (that i wasn’t really interested in knowing so i didn’t ask for specifics (i’m sorry i can’t provide more hot goss which i know is something that you guys like)) and that when he’d come to check on Ted he found him spiraling pretty bad. Ted was never much of a drinker just kinda socially and on special occasions but that when he got to his place he was completely wasted at 10am on a saturday. B6 stayed with him and sobered him up and eventually on sunday he caught him up on the family situation. B6 went out to grab his stuff from his hotel and came back to Ted completely unresponsive. He called emergency services and Ted stayed in the hospital for a bit.
I don’t really know if anything else happened to him or if it was just an accumulation of everything that had been happening for the past 2 years catching up with him but it feels to me that he had been going on a self-destructive bender for quite a while. Talking it over with my therapist she kinda implied that that would make sense and it would also kinda explain why the divorce. Maybe i’m just trying to find a justification of why he divorced me even after all this time but knowing Ted the way that i do that would make sense.
He was always a great protector, i guess he got that trait early in his life protecting Ash. He’s the type of guy to keep an eye out on girl’s drink at a bar, that always stops to check if an unaccompanied child is okay. He also has some controlling tendencies that most often lead him to anxiety, he’s a great planner but has great difficulties when things don’t go according to said plan. It makes him rigid at times but also extremely reliable, but those are all things I always loved about him. Many times during our multiple conversations before the divorce he would always apologize for not being able to protect me, for putting me in harm's way and even though I thought I had reassured him that it wasn’t his fault I guess he was never convinced.
He was also coming to terms with the reality that his family was not really as nice as he thought, having realized that he himself had taken part in the dismissiveness of the family’s actions throughout their childhood, having to realize how bad and horrifying his past was, and how monstrous some of his brothers are. It really takes a toll on a person. He was dealing with his own trauma, the immeasurable guilt he felt and all in all the powerlessness.
Ted ended up in going to a treatment center for a bit. He wouldn’t let me visit but he did write me emails. They are a little too personal to share with you guys but it was a very emotional experience reading them. The first few apologetic for making me worry and reassuring me that he was alright. Some others very rambling (and that’s coming from me) and some others actually pretty great. It was a very interesting progression seeing him go from hyper polite and apologetic back to the same man i fell in love with. It was also very interesting seeing him internalize things that i had been saying for years, and also gaining insight on things that i hadn’t seen before. Overall i think it was cathartic for him (i do think writing is the best outlet hence why i’m here) and it helped him organize his thoughts. Why emails to me specifically instead of a diary or emails to himself? I have no idea but I’m not complaining.
There was one particular email where he was angry at everyone and everything. Everything was wrong and he was frustrated and I felt so relieved. It was amazing reading his spark coming back. When he first emailed me he asked me not to reply to his emails, to just listen (read?) or that if i wanted to i could just delete them and he would be none the wiser.
In the angry email he called me by a nickname that he hadn’t used in years, since before we got married, and boy did that piss me off. It wasn’t anything serious, he was ranting about a trip we had taken with a few friends and they ended up breaking up in the middle of it and didn’t want to go back home because everything was already paid for but refused to be with each other so we ended up splitting boys and girls to do the activities that were planned and he was miserable the entire time. He said something along the lines of ‘I haven't forgiven Alysa for Venice. It was supposed to be you and I Peaches, not me and Rog on a freaking gondola’
It’s nothing wrong with the pet name itself but it just brought back the feeling of everything i had lost and all of the memories of everything and i went against his request and replied to his email. This led to more correspondence between the two. He didn’t take it badly that i replied so i don’t know if that was his intention all along or what but we just emailed back and forth for a few weeks and it was nice.
We never talked about Ash or his family when we emailed, i don’t know if it was because it just didn’t come up naturally or he was avoiding the topic but it was nice just communicating with him like back in the day. When we first met facebook messenger was the thing we used to communicate and just writing to him brought me back to those days. It’s stupid how much i still love him and how much i missed him. Those stupid emails were like getting my best friend back even if he wasn’t my husband anymore.
He is now back at his place. B3, his wife and dog lived with him (yay remote work) for a while just until he got properly settled. He now takes antidepressants and has a broader support network and is doing much better. He stopped shutting people out while still maintaining some healthy boundaries which is great. He’s back in touch with B3, B4 and B6 which were always his closets other than Ash. And is absolutely NC with everyone else. I feel a little bad for his niblings because I know he was really close to some of them and I know he misses them but yeah, that’s something he definitely needed.
For what is worth B6 also is NC with everyone. He was always kinda distant with everyone other than Ted and Ash i’m guessing because he knew but after everything he’s kinda getting closer to B4 and B3 which hey, another silver lining. I’m not entirely sure what contact 3 and 4 have with everyone else but i do know that B4 is somewhat involved but he has a clear understanding and respect of the boundaries that Ted set and does not share information with him or of him.
Ted and I have met a few times. Sometimes at friends’ events others just to catch up and I honestly can tell he is doing good now. He’s regained the weight he lost and his hair is shiny again. You can’t see his freckles anymore so he’s been spending time in the sun which is good and his shoulders don’t sag anymore. He went back to his job this this past week (he was put on LOA) and i can tell how much it gives him a sense of purpose. He was never able to not do anything so I can imagine how that time was extra itchy for him because of that.
We did end up going to a shelter and he adopted an elderly cat. His name is Socks i’m guessing because he has white paws. He’s a great cat and very loving, he’s also missing a bunch of his teeth. Ted has been trying to rename him Macbeth but he doesn’t seem to like it. In Ted’s defense, he also doesn’t respond to Socks so maybe he’ll succeed. I brought Tortilla to visit them and she was very happy to see Ted, she didn’t really care for MacSocks but that’s because she doesn’t like animals bigger than her.
Back at my parents and life right now
As I mentioned before, I live on the east coast and 2022 was particularly rough for us. 2 hurricanes hit my town and my apartment flooded. During state of emergency my dad always invites us to their place so at least Tortilla and I were safe but yeah that sucked.
I don’t know if it was a message from the universe or divine intervention or what but you know the 2 pairs of shoes that i kept? Ruined. Both of them. I tried everything in my power to save them, even consulted professionals but yeah, ruined beyond repair. I mean, it wasn’t only those 2 shoes, like half of my belongings had to be replaced and a bunch of other sentimental things but you guys know about the shoes and my attachment to them even if they were a biohazard.
My poor apartment went through a lot. The floors had to be removed because of the water damage and it was already rotting and molding underneath by the time we were able to go in so that was a big investment to fix, my appliances needed to be replaced (including the robot mop tragically) and most of my furniture too. For the record i did have sandbags but i guess it was too much for them. Insurance covered a portion of of the repairs it but clearly not all (insurance claims suuuuuuuckkkkkkk) and well, it ended up being the best option to fix the things and sell the apartment.
I have always complained about moving but there was something so depressing about moving with just a few boxes. Not even when i went to college did i have so little with me. So i’m currently staying with my parents. Again. It’s a little frustrating but i’m grateful to be with my parents. The house feels a little lonely because the last of my sisters just moved away to college so it’s quiet except for the cats running around but hey, cats are great company.
I’m in the process of closing on a new apartment. In a high rise this time so this hopefully doesn’t happen again. I’ll miss my park but the new apartment is in an amazing location with everything nearby. I could also bike to my job if i wanted to but i’d have to learn how to ride a bike first. Why don’t I know how to ride a bike? Because my dad was too overprotective and thought we’d die if we got on a bike. I don’t know if i’m too old to learn how to ride a bike now but i’m willing to bruise my ego and try training wheels.
The new apartment has much bigger windows so there’ll be lots of sunny patches for Tortilla. I wanted to build a catio at my last place because i did have a small terrace but the new place has a balcony which seems a little unsafe for a catio.
So yeah, that’s life right now. I’ve been focusing on work and spending time with my parents. I booked myself a trip in march and it’ll be my first time traveling alone. I’m slightly scared because i’ve never had to plan a trip by myself (did I mention Ted is a great planner?) and i have no idea if i’m doing things right but that’s the point. I’ve been taking classes for the language of where i’m going so we’ll see how much i actually learnt.
I wanna share something as well, which is ultimately why i ended up writing this update and choosing the title. I did not add it in the tldr because screw the haters, if they don’t want to read all of my ramblings why should they be privy to it all?
Back when B6 contacted me about Ted i was afraid that he was telling me that Ash was back and as you now know that was not the case. When Ted was getting help I received a letter at my parent’s house.
It was a letter from Ash. For the first time in the 2 years since peegate happened i didn’t feel dread. I don’t know if it’s because i was receiving Ted’s emails or maybe i’ve done some good healing (my therapist really should start charging me more, she refused when i offered her a raise saying that it doesn’t work like that) but yeah, i read it.
He apologized. He also owned up to a lot of things he had done to me that i had never noticed were microaggressions on his part and he owned up to a lot of his behaviors that always bothered me.
He didn’t try to justify anything just apologize. He admitted to a few other things that were both surprising and not, and some others that a few of you guessed about. It felt a little rambly and desperate but i get it.
He apologized for hurting Ted, that he knew what Ted was going through perhaps more than anyone else and that he understood that he had done irreparable damage and was never going to be in his life again. That even if he couldn’t help his brother after everything he’d caused he knew that by at least owning up to his mistakes he could at least make it up a little to me, and that even if Ted never knew about it, it was a small way for him to apologize to him indirectly.
He said a line that I found interesting ‘I’m sorry i ruined your marriage, but i don’t think i ruined your life. Ted would not have chosen you if you weren’t resilient’. He also thanked me for trying. I tried really hard at first to be friends with him but after the incident of course it was a big nope. He said he had given up on people other than Ted trying for him and that he was sorry he never gave me a chance. He admitted he was jealous that I brought Ted happiness in ways he couldn’t and that he regretted that because of him Ted had lost that.
I think it was just a way to try to appease the guilt he was feeling about hurting his favorite person and seeing the actual effect it had on him while also somewhat respecting his boundaries. I mean, he disrespected mine but yeah I get it.
I haven’t told Ted about the letter. I don’t think I will either. I did tell B6 and even though he was enraged at first he understood and accepted it and told me it was up to me if I told Ted or not. That he didn’t think it’d do much harm but also wouldn’t help anything so that if i felt compelled to tell or show him to wait a while until he was in a better place and that perhaps to run it by his therapist or do it in therapy.
Closing thoughts
Christmas has come and gone again and this year i did spend it with my family. My sisters are the best and each of them bought me a pair of shoes to represent my life milestones and they gave me an empty shoebox to represent the pair that i’ll have to buy to start this new chapter. It’s the most sentimental gift i’ve ever gotten and i cried most of christmas morning because of it.
I saw Ted for New year’s. We were both invited to a mutual friend’s party and we had a great time. We didn’t intentionally spend the whole time together but we did often end up in our own conversations (without being rude to everyone else) and just laughing together. When midnight struck i was sitting in the back kinda away from the couples and he sat next to me and put his head on my shoulder and we just stayed in comfortable silence while everyone else rang the new year.
It’s such a relief to have Ted the friend back. I still love him. I probably always will. I’ve tried the distance thing, the no contact, the sleeping with someone else to get him out of my system and it does not work. I don’t know if he is my fated soulmate and we’ll always gravitate towards each other or if it’s just the comfort and convenience of being together for so long but i can’t help but love him. I love the man he was before, and i love the man he is right now, and i love the one he was in between and if i'm being honest i'll probably will love the one he will be every day after.
I will not give him up even if i have to give up on him. I rather keep him in my life as my friend than keep pushing him away when i’m always happiest when he’s in my life. I deserve to be happy and he makes me happy. Is that so wrong? I know most of you keep saying that it was a good riddance and that he did me a favor and we should just cut each other off but i miss him. Maybe it makes me stupid but hey at least I will be stupid and happy. If he asks me to step back i will but i’m okay with just being happy right now and worrying about the future later. I think both of us deserve that.
We both still have a lot of work to do and a lot more healing coming our ways but for right now things are good, and I think we both need good. I think all of us (you guys included) need good.
If you’ve made it this far into my ramblings thank you for taking the time i wish you all the good things, may you find a $20 in your pocket, may your favorite drink be in stock at the store. May your coffee be made to perfection.
But seriously thank you guys for always giving me the space to talk about my life without (much) judgment, with love and acceptance and understanding. Each and every one of you is incredible and kind, please always know that i appreciate you and love each of you independently. Thank you for caring for me.
Love,
Ellie and Tortilla

I am not OOP. OOP was u/DanteLesnie. He posted in AskReddit 10 years ago but has since deleted his account. Another time capsule of reddit a decade ago.
Fun fact to cover up spoilers: u/Mooflz requested mountain lions. Mountain lions can't roar, but female mountain lions are capable of making a screaming sound which apparently attracts mates. Most mountain lions weigh between 76-175 pounds (34.5-79.4 kg), but the largest ever recorded weighed 276 pounds! (125.2 kg)
Trigger Warning: infidelity, domestic violence
Mood Spoiler: Sad but hopeful
Original Post: July 30, 2012
Title: Apparently, I missed my wife's lover by only a few minutes. I found out when she texted me accidentally instead of him. Reddit, when did you know for sure it was over?
I went on a business trip this weekend and got home at 6:25AM. I didn't want to wake her and the kids, so I sat quietly in the living room watching TV. A few minutes later I get a text from her:
"Thanks for staying over babe. I love sleeping next to you."
Obviously, I wasn't here last night. I'm still on the couch and haven't responded. I think she went back to sleep and has no idea she accidentally texted me.
Monday: (July 30, 2012)

1. I had to go to work before confronting her. I think it was better anyway, since it gave me time to think about what to say instead of rushing to anger.
2. I asked my assistant to go to the 7-11 next door and see if they have Shiner Bock. If they don't, I'll ask him to go as far as Publix. For science! (Edit: we didn't find any)
3. She finally texted me at work, and said that her (girl)friend stayed over. I didn't respond. (3:00PM EST)

Update: Tuesday (July 31, 2012)

1. I left work last night and went to dinner with one of my work partners.
2. I didn't say a word to my wife when I came to bed. In the morning I mentioned the text after I woke up. I told her I was surprised she would use that language with a girlfriend.
3. She broke down and admitted that she had a (platonic) girlfriend AND an (not-so platonic) ex-boyfriend over while I was away.
4. She admitted it wasn't the first time.
5. I calmly told her I would have to think about how I feel about the situation and let her know whether we should seperate.

Thanks, reddit, you prepared me for the worst, way in advance. It's nice to get the hivemind's opinion sometimes before jumping into a rash and complicated situation, or acting brash and angry as a reaction. I really appreciate everyone's comments and help figuring out the next steps!
Relevant Comment:
"I thought it could be innocent, but I've only heard her call one other person "babe". (me) I also considered that she wants me to know and her subconscious sabotaged her."
There are a lot of suggestions on the original post as to what he should do.
Update Post: August 3, 2012
Title: Well guys I'm a big dumb idiot. She knew I was home and just wanted me to come up. When have any of you misread a text message and almost ruined everything?
Or at least, I really wish that's how it happened. It didn't. Turns out I was right when I posted this thread . I missed her long-time lover by just under 15 minutes.
Kudos to spicy_jose for suggesting this clever title in the original thread.
EDIT: Guys, before I moved out I saw two lawyers and talked to an old frat-buddy lawyer in my state who also happens to work at the State Attorney's office. They all said that moving out won't hurt my case, but pulling all of my finances away from the family WOULD. That's abandonment. Leaving an unsafe situation for the good of you/your children isn't abandonment. Fuck me, right?
I'm very sorry to abandon Reddit without an update to this thread since Tuesday.
A hazy fog of disbelief has clouded my world. Everything happy has disappeared - the quiet nuclear family life, two kids, a dog, a four-bed home in the suburbs.
Since Tuesday morning I have learned this has happened before:

• She took him to an expensive hotel on the beach near our home to eat at the award-winning restaurant. I introduced her to this place on our anniversary last year.
• She revealed to me that she is interested in a 'swinger' lifestyle. And, she's already been to swinger clubs with him and the girlfriend.

She wants to keep our marriage together but wants to keep the lover as well. The funny is, I'm not a jealous person. Neither am I controlling or demanding, or think that I can force someone to love only me. If she hadn't gone secret agent on me and tried to hide it, I would have considered it.
I've moved out of the home and into my office until I can find an condo or apartment close to our primary home and my daughter's school. I've given my lead engineer all of our bank info so he can run the company in case I get held up with any problems.
I wonder how many Redditors were hoping it was just a mistake? Alas, life sometimes has a way of being as entirely predictable as you imagined it would. :(
TL;dr: Life could be so much simpler if it had been a mis-understanding. It wasn't. She was cheating, hiding, and using our family's money to do it.
Relevant Comment:
More information about what went down:
"I wasn't going to move out originally. A lot happened since Tuesday night.
During one of our discussions about this lover, things turned argumentative. Then violent. She has a history of violence. Names were called, fists were thrown and eventually objects were broken. She called the police and claimed she wanted me out. The police sided with me, and said there was no evidence I abused her so they can't ask me to leave my own home. My daughter watched, not able to go to bed while the police questioned daddy.
I left for a friend's house and got severely drunk on whiskey.
The next morning I returned home and demanded she leave. She left for about 20 hours while I took care of the kids. She came back at night and locked herself in the bedroom, and texted me that the kids need her and she can't abandon them.
I told her there is no way to live with the violence, and one of us had to leave. Sadly, I had to be that person.
I have been going to the house every morning to wake up with them, and at night to put them to bed. (the kids, that is)
I will rent a new place that can hold all of us, and move there in the next few weeks. Then, she can move wherever she can afford on her own."
People criticize him for leaving, but most agree he did the right thing:
"Thank you. :)
It's not like it was an easy decision to make and I pray it doesn't bite me in the ass later. But you know what would be worse? Staying. Getting in another fight. Having the police come AGAIN and having not-so-understanding police officers again.
You know what would be worse than losing my house in the divorce? Going to jail because the police believed her story. Screwing up my life, my company, my future and the future of my kids/their family income, the money they need to eat, etc.
Staying would be so much worse. The rest of it, I can deal with. I am not an absentee father and she'd have to make up evidence in court if she wanted to somehow prove that I was, whether or not I am sleeping in the "marital home"."
Final Update Post: August 15, 2012
This is an update to the story where I caught my wife cheating in a text message, and when I confronted her she admitted to having multiple affairs and a secret swinger lifestyle.
THANK YOU to those following my cuckold non-fiction story. Sadly, this is true. For /MensRights I feel like I should keep a log to help other men when they find themselves in the same situation.
1,000 other people are facing the same situation I am, today, right now.
I couldn't spend another night in the bed SHE had other people in. I'm not a prude. But the lying, cheating and stealing killed our marriage faster than a cancer eating away at your insides. And it hurt just as bad.
I've left my career as a successful engineer. I put the company in the hands of my highest executive and told him I might not be back. I still offered to fly in to close any big sales. This season of my life is over. I've moved on, and it's time for some shake-it-up life altering changes.
I have:

• $100,000 in open personal credit.
• $50,000 in open company credit.
• A paid off car. (It's a Lexus ISF, thanks for asking! ;-)
• Enough savings and residual income to not work for 6 months.
• Two kids who depend on me in every way, financially and stability-wise.

I've already done the typical bachelor stuff you forget about when you're married - upgraded to an iPhone, purchased new wheels and speakers for my sports mid-level luxury sports car, upgraded my battlestation and took a vacation to Disneyland. (OMG, really? I'm getting so much hate for this. Yes, I talk like a teenager on reddit, is that a crime? :P )
I want a new life. Reddit, what would you do? What DID you do? Travel? Buy shit? Work out until you looked like an Olympic athlete? Spill your guts, ladies and gentlemen. Tell me your mid-life crisis successes and failures!
Relevant Comments:
Why did you leave your job?
"I did what made a lot of money and LOVED every minute of it. But I realized I started liking the sales part of the business, and not the execution as much.
My true passion is elsewhere. I am hoping to break into the special effects industry (practical effects, explosions, model building, etc...) I've been around computers too long, and I just can't do it anymore. What I would give to have worked on a Nolan Batman flick, rigging lights for a SFX shot! (sigh)"
"Well I also have residuals from my company still coming in every two weeks. Not exactly as high as my take-home pay, but still enough to be okay."
More about custody:
"We're splitting the kids, realistically; for the moment they live in the "primary" home but several (many) nights of the week they are here, and I put them to bed and wake up with them. Eventually I will move back to the primary home or move the kids here permanently, and let the ex- take them several days out of the week.
It was just a compromise, since I'm the one materially supporting the household, their food, clothes, gas, etc."
What does this have to do with men's rights?
"From the other thread, there was a lot of debate about how I should handle the ex-, kick her to the curb vs. a more empathetic approach, whether or not I should fight for full custody, etc. I'm trying to make it out alive and hopefully document some of it for other people going though the same (infidelity, lying, separation, etc.) from a man POV."
OOP continued to post sporadically up until about 3 years ago. He did leave one more comment in relation to his ex-wife:
"I was married to a woman who couldn't wait to die, so she could get to heaven... because her dad was there."
I marked this as concluded because OOP did end up leaving.

Originally posted by u/old_difficulty_5702 in AITAH on March 11, '23, updated the next day as an edit.
Original post
AITA for expecting my fiancé to “babysit” his own kids longer than 2 hours while I work?
I 27f recently started my business back up. I went to college got a degree got licensed etc and started back doing something I love that is extremely profitable. My fiancé has been working for the last almost 2 years while I stayed home with our 2 under 2. (Because daycare cost more than our rent).
Now that the babies are easier to handle I started back working every other weekend when he’s off. To be clear he 27m works full time overnights on 12hr swing shift. He’s off every other weekend and works 3 or 4 days each week. The rest he avoids us like the plague. I have been working with clients and out of the 4 times I’ve needed him to watch them for just 2 hours he’s actually done it one time. After that he was angry I went over by 15 minutes. And told me more than once now that he’s not willing to keep them more than 1-2 hours alone. He would be fine if I just take 1-2 clients every other week but 15 hours every other week is WAY too much. (Never mind the 16 hours a day I spend with them every single other day. But I guess that’s besides the point since that’s my “job”.)
I’m also expected to clean the entire house alone or pay someone to help me but asking him gets me no where. (And starting nursing school soon as well.) He thinks I’m being unreasonable in my request for him to watch the kids 5p-10:30pm while I work a real job in a business I own. So AITA?
In the comments:

Run, don’t walk before you have another child

OP: I had a son when we met who’s now 8. And we had 2 together 1 and 2 (12 mo 5 d apart) and I’ve had my tubes removed on top of endometriosis. Plus you have to do the deed to get the seed and that’s not been happening. It’s hard to get turned on when I feel like I’m his replacement mommy.

Are your in-laws aware of his behaviour? What have they said about it?

OP: That IM the problem and that I berate him and treat him like sht. 🤷🏻‍♀️ literally stopped talking to us for months because I had a problem with them being malicious to me for wanting my partner there for me when I had an inner and outer ear infection and went to the ER for less than 45 minutes in and out.

You made two kids with him because why? Was he not this shitty when the first was here?

OP: The first kid with him (2nd kid for me) he was amazing. Shared the load helped with the house etc. amazing partner and dad. The very day I found out I was pregnant with the 3rd things started spiraling. But I’m my naive mind I thought we would be ok because we did great together when our daughter was an infant. This will go just like it. I ended up being the sole caretaker to the 3rd kid (his 2nd) for months. He never even changed his diaper until he was 4 months old. I’ve stayed this long hoping it’s depression and it’ll be under control and we’ll go back to the way things were but it hasn’t.

I think you should not clean after the kids either n make him do it

OP: I tried that and he ignored it until we were eating off random lids as plates and using butter knives or our fingers to eat. And we ended up with bugs. Now I’ve spent the last 2 weeks and hired someone to come help tomorrow with getting it back how it’s supposed to be.

As a literal single parent, in a home with one income, you should qualify for assistance. Make sure he pays child support, of course.

OP: Can I ask what assistance there even is? I didn’t need it when it was just me and my oldest but if I left now I’d have to have som serious things in play or I’ll ruin mine and my kids lives. It’s easier right now to just avoid and ignore him while the bills are paid and pay someone to watch the kids so I can at least finish the schooling I need than to just jump ship. I know he’s going to end up cheating. I half expect it to already be happening. He already doesn’t want to spend time with us so avoiding him is easy. I keep second guessing myself which has caused this to go on far longer than I’m proud of.
OOP gets some advice on assistance

Make a plan & get out or kick him out. Don't marry this guy.

OP: Thankfully I do have some life experience as I was previously married. My oldest and I were on our own when I met my fiancé. My 2 youngest (his only 2 kids) are his only kids and after talking for 2 hours last night I realized he’s literally never gonna figure it out. He’ll never get it or understand. I have already had my tubes tied and I already don’t sleep with him as I’m not sure he’s not cheating already.
The absolute only reason I’ve stayed this long is that it wasn’t always like this. I guess the mask has come off and with as long as we’ve been together I only recently caved to getting engaged. I swore I’d never get married again and I keep pushing the wedding or elopement out to give myself time to either let him change in a meaningful way or lose his family for good. I do also have an exit plan if I can’t take it long enough to make it through nursing school.
I’ve already hired a cleaner and working on finding a babysitter as well and have maintained separate accounts with the only joint account being our savings which I have full access to. I’ve been dropping money in my own savings account untraceable for quite some time but it’s a slow effort when I wasn’t working. I’m hoping now that I am working I’ll be able to save and save while going through nursing school so that when I’m done I can walk away with my head up and all 3 of my babies set up for success.

If you can do your job enough to pay for some help, even a part time nanny and someone to clean the house once a week, get your nursing degree, get a good job and get OUT.

OP: I have already hired cleaning help and working on the child care part. I got my tubes removed and the 1st baby we had together it was magical. He helped he did all the things exactly right and once I found out I was pregnant 4 months lost partum everything changed and I guess the mask came off. But I am planning the exit after nursing school

Pack his bags. Why should you and your kids leave your home?

OP: I’m not on the lease even though I’ve lived here since we moved in together 2 years ago. But I’m not on it intentionally. I want a way out always.

Forward thinking. I like it. TBH, if he thinks as a SAHM it's your job to do all the childcare and housework, any money you earn out of that realm is all yours to do as you please? Save it for a deposit on your own place. Going by your post, you have fk all to lose here. He has no value to you ATM.

OP: I at one point last night asked him "what do I have to lose? Be genuine with your response. What exactly would I be losing by walking away? What reasons do I have to stay? You’ve cheated on me, you’re an alcoholic that right now is defending it, you aren’t dependable, you’re not trustworthy, and you treat me like a punching bag. The only consistent contribution is your paycheck and I make more part time than you do full time thanks to my college and years I spent making myself better even before my kiddos. I only agreed to SAHM to save money with the understanding that as soon as the youngest started walking I was going back. He’s walking. I’m going back."
He had literally nothing to answer about it. No words at all. Then after a long minute asked if I didn’t even notice him “trying” by taking the trash out twice then going to bed. And getting woke up twice because I had to finish cleaning before my client showed up and he wouldn’t get up. When he finally did he was rude to me and the kids. And I told him in advance this is gonna take possibly 2 hours. I finished with her at 2 hours and 15 minutes and he was fuming because it was “way over” 2 hours. Then I had to finish dinner for everyone and he was supposed to eat and out the food away when he got back up. Well low and behold I wake up and that food is ruined now.
He also didn’t start the dishwasher and didn’t do any laundry. He literally drank and played video games all night long then went to bed and was pissed when our youngest woke up wanting a bottle a few hours ago. I have cleaners coming in 30 minutes and I have been the one putting in the hours and hours and hours to get the house ready to even be cleaned by someone else.
I let it go and the kids and I stayed in the playroom for 2 weeks and I didn’t touch a single thing. No laundry no dishes I didn’t cook none of it. And he got increasingly angry every day. I finally broke when I found bugs in the sink and cleaned it all but it took me 3 days cleaning and I still need someone to come in and help get it back to “safe” standards which shows how bad it was just from HIM. To say I’m DONE is an understatement.
Update:
We had a very long talk last night which led to my discovery that he was drinking. (Previous history has shown he’s an alcoholic and I’ve only stayed because he quit drinking. He was defending saying he was only having a couple. (Probably more and I think I may check. Not that it matters at this point anyways but just fuel to the fire I guess.)) And he was trying to hide it.
I explained how I feel and how I’m not tolerating this forever and he should get that realization quick because the alternative is losing his family. I explained that previous issues while I’ve forgiven him he’s made them a habit so forgiveness just means I’m not angry about them but that I won’t keep letting him hurt me in those ways. (Such as leaving his family broke down on the side of the road and I had to call my mom and deal with strangers when my van broke down in the dark while he was “getting ready for work” but was standing in the doorway when we got home and didn’t leave for work for 1 more hour after we were home.)
Emotionally I feel numb. Physically I’m drained. I have numerous health issues of which hormones are the top of that because my unmanaged thyroid is wreaking havoc on my body. But mentally I have hardened myself to this craziness already and definitely planning my exit. I’m trying to stay as long as I can stand it so I can get through nursing school or at least most of it. I want my kids to be set up for success before I take that leap. (I have 8m, 2f, 1m btw. My oldest is from a previous dead weight marriage which gave me the wisdom to not share accounts and has made me realize there’s a reason I keep pushing our wedding out and avoiding it more than he avoids us.)
I have already hired cleaning help and working on finding a sitter. My only hang up right now is that “my” car is in his name only (I wanted NOTHING joint and his truck is in his name only.) and without having work history on paper once I take this leap I’m without transportation unless he agrees to let me have it if I’m making the payments.
I’m on my way out. He just thinks I’m joking I guess.
He did say but haven’t you noticed that I did XYZ thing today? My rebuttals were but you haven’t done those things consistently so I’m 2 days when you drop the mask again I’m still shafted. “I’ll prove it to you” yet all he’s managed to prove is that I can count on him. I can trust that he’ll be there for me or the kids. I can trust that he will keep promises or his word even. So his only meaningful and consistent contribution is his paycheck. 🤷🏻‍♀️ and I’m supposed to think about how lucky I have it y’all! No thank you. I’ll make my own paycheck and have less to do when I’m done working for the day and one less persons problems to manage. ✌🏻
Reminder, DO NOT comment on the original posts or contact the original poster. I am not the original poster. This is a repost.

I am NOT OP. Original post by u/ThrowRamommah in relationship_advice
trigger warnings: possible grooming
mood spoilers: rage

My son(22M) cut contact with me (43F) four years ago due to getting involved with his friend (22M). He contacted me two day ago and wants to meet up this Friday. - 7 March 2023
Note: I understand that coming on this subreddit made me open to criticism. I know
I'll be judged. But, I am here to learn how to improve the situation.
I had my son at the age of 21 years old. His father passed away two years later. So it was me and my son against the world.
When it came to my dating life, I haven't been so lucky. I did have some random hook-ups here and there and very short-term relationships throughout my son's childhood.
In the beginning of my son's senior year, he brought a friend home. Let's call him Max. He was basically at our house every other weekend. I was really happy because my son doesn't have a lot of friends. He usually keeps to himself. I really liked Max as a person. He was a real sweet guy. We had have nice,short conversations whenever he was at our place. We exchanged number just in case. He would start sending me messages and jokes. I would respond back. My son didn't mind at all.
After 4 months of coming to our house, Max texts me he wants to meet up for coffee out of nowhere. I texted him if it was something urgent or about my son. He responded by saying it's something important. I was curious, so I decided to meet up with him.
When I met up with him, he looked very nervous. I asked him what was the meeting about. He told me I can't tell my son about it. He then confessed to me that he was developing feelings for me. I was taken aback by this. I told him that while I was flattered, I had to think about my son. He pleaded with me to just give him a chance. It was so long that I found somebody interested in me like that. Max was already 18 when he was introduced to me and he was a very handsome man. I said yes, but with the condition that it would be only casual dating and my son doesn't have to know about it.
We met up the next week at his place. I told my son I was going out with my friends l
After an hour into the date, we slept with each other. Then we promised to meet up in the close future. Our meetups became very frequents, and as such, our relationship grew stronger. I was beginning to fall in love with Max. We learned more about each other. Max was becoming my main source of joy. I wanted the weekend to start early just to be with Max. It was hard for me to pay attention to anything else in my life.
Looking back, it seems that my relationship with Max had a negative effect on the relationship with my son. I had to come up with different excuses on why I wasn't around. I missed out on his soccer games. I think I really messed up when I missed his birthday dinner because I was with Max. I told him that work held me up.
It was a week before my son's flight to college, that I got a text from Max that my son found out about us. I got it in the middle of work. I was scared to go back home. When my son arrived home he never uttered a word about the situation. He just pretended that nothing ever happened. He seemed very cold to me. Never looked at me in the eye and gave one word responses. When it came to dropping him off, he didn't even give me a hug or even looked back at me when it was time for the flight to even wave goodbye.
When I drove back home, Max's car was in my driveway. It was the first time I saw him ever since I got that text from him. I saw he had a black eye and a broken nose when he stepped out of his car. We hugged each other tightly. I cried in his arms. Once we stepped in my house I told him how bad I felt to what I did to my son. The worst part I wasn't sad my son was leaving but relieved instead. Max comforted me in saying he's just as much at fault for this situation. Max stayed that night. The next day, he proposed to me. I accepted.
It's been four years now. Max and I have a 2 year old daughter. He works as a mechanic. The airport was the last time I saw my son. He blocked me on everything. I asked his grandparents if he ever contacted them. His grandfather told me that my son told them everything. He said he will take care of my son, but he told me to never contact my son or them again.
Two days ago, I got a call from my son that he's going to be in town and he wants to meet up in person this Friday. I said yes.
What should I do or say when I meet him?

I met up with my son after four years of no contact - 12 March 2023
Original Post: https://www.reddit.com/relationship_advice/duplicates/11lcng9/my_son22m_cut_contact_with_me_43f_four_years_ago/
For the few that gave me actual advice, I went to meet up with my son without Max or my daughter. It was at a local coffee shop. I found him sitting in one of the booths at the coffee shop. He was on his phone. I was really scared. A part of me wanted to tackle him with a hug and beg for his forgiveness. Another part of me, wanted to leave before he noticed me. I said his name to get his attention. He didn't even leave his seat; he just looked at me and said hi. I asked if I could sit. I started asking about how is he doing. He said he was fine. I was about to apologize, but he interrupted me by saying, "Before you apologize, I want to understand how the relationship between Max and you even started."
I started telling him everything. When it came to mentioning my meet-ups, he interjected me and started asking me questions that were difficult to answer. He asked "So all the times that you were going out you were lying to me about where were you going. Weren't you?" I nodded. "What about the times I asked to spend time with you? Did you lie to me so you meet up with Max instead?" I started tearing up. It was hard being there. "Did you miss out on events to be with Max? What about my birthday?" That's when I started crying. He told me to save my tears. He said he figured that out soon after he learned about the relationship with Max. He just wanted to hear it from me. He then asked me if I was still with Max. I told him I was married to him and I have a daughter with him. He seemed to need a minute to process that.
Then he started speaking. He told me he never had an issue with me dating or meeting someone. In fact, he hoped I found love. He understands that I needed companionship and a type of love he couldn't offer as my son. He told me throughout all these years he felt conflicted because both Max and I were both consenting adults and adults have a right to find happiness. My son admitted he shouldn't Max and was glad he didn't press charges. He said despite all of that, they were some things that he can't get over. He told me he can't get over the fact that I didn't take him into consideration when it came to pursuing the relationship. It was also hurtful to realize that I would value a romantic relationship to the point of being willing to throw away a close relationship with him for it. If I had the attitude of being done raising him and finally pursuing my own life, then that's valid, according to him. However, I would have no right to want to have a close relationship with him in return. Again, that's what he said he believes. He told me he wouldn't have forgotten me when he left for college. He would have wanted me to move close to him after he got a job if he couldn't move close to me. In this ideal world we would live close by so he we could still see each other even after he had a family.
He said he loves himself and his life too much to have back in my life.. My son said he works as a mechanical engineer now. He is engaged to the love of his life. She was also raised by a single mom like him until she was 16 when her stepdad into the picture. Both of them have welcomed him into the family. He told me his future in-laws and his fiance are his family now. He said he was getting a job near them.
He finally admitted that he just wanted closure before permanently cutting me off. He told me not to contact him or his family at all. He made it clear he wouldn't be there for me at my last stage of life or even come to my funeral. He made it clear he won't even hold my hand when I pass away. I won't have the privilege of knowing his fiance or his future kids. He made it clear that if his half-sister ever contacts him as an adult he'll be upfront on why he doesn't want a relationship with her. He said good bye to me and left. I cried so hard that I got the attention of the people in the coffee shop. I was crying on the way back home. I don't even know how therapy can even help. I never felt so much emotional pain in my life before. What do I do now?

​
Reminder - I am not the original poster.

I am NOT the OP, this is a repost.
TW: Child abandonment and neglect, death of child, death of parents, mentions of suicide attempts, ignoring boundaries.
Update Spoiler: Sad, depressing.
NOTE: Please remember the no brigading rule and do not engage with the original posts by OP.
Original post by u/throwaway_1028585 on AmItheAsshole
AITA for responding to my father’s request for a relationship with a detailed PowerPoint on why he will never be forgiven? (Dec 9th, 2022)
If I’m the AH here, I’ll own it. I’m not sorry, but like it would be good to know because the rest of my family thinks this went too far.
My (24F) mom died when I was 7 from leukemia. I have very few memories of her from before she was sick and I didn’t get to spend a lot of time with her in her last year but she was an artist and until she couldn’t anymore she would make me little collages when she was in the hospital with drawings and photos and messages for me. My grandmother put them all in a book for me after she died. I wanted to be like my mom and my counselor thought it would help, so I started a journal where I would do kind of a similar thing and I’ve done at least one page a week all these years ever since my mom died, more when I miss her or have something hard going on. So, I have kind of a unique record of my mental state over the last 16 years.
My father remarried when I was 9. My step-mother really leaned hard into the “I’m your mom now” and my father didn’t stop her. It improved when they had my half-brother because she basically forgot about me then. Unfortunately he got cancer when he was 3. And I pretty much ceased to exist for my father, he was either working or gone with my brother and I spent all my teen years mostly at home alone or with my grandparents. The mantra was that my brother needed to be the focus because he might die so I needed to not be selfish since I was healthy. I stopped trying to talk to him when I was 16 and it was a dark time. I moved out when I was 18 and cut them off completely.
My grandparents let me know that my brother died a couple of years ago but respected my desire to remain NC with my father. He recently reached out to them because he wants to see me and talk. I went through my old journals and made him a PowerPoint with images of the entries where I had talked about being frustrated and feeling abandoned and unwanted, some with literal quotes of things my dad had said to me during arguments. Even the really dark stuff from when I was seriously depressed. Then I ended it with a photo of one of my mom’s collages where she had written “Remember that your dad and I are always here for you” and I wrote “You failed. Go away.” underneath. I felt like him being able to see it from my literal perspective would communicate why I don’t want him back better than I could.
Evidently it worked, but a little too well because I’ve been bombarded by family telling me that it’s understandable that I don’t want to see him, but what I sent gutted him and he’s completely fallen apart after reading through it and it was unnecessarily cruel.
Maybe it was, I know my bar for that is kind of weird sometimes, so AITA?
Edit - A couple of follow up notes, since it came up the comments:

1. I loved my brother. I don’t resent him. He was a good kid and I wish he was still with us. None of this is his fault, to me it is completely my father’s and to a lesser extent step-mother’s. The parents prevented me from spending time with him as he got sicker so I wouldn’t have been allowed to be there for him even if I had been able to (which I wasn’t towards the end because I was also struggling to stay alive).
   
2. I have empathy. I understand what my father lost, I was there. I also lost those same people plus effectively my father. Even so, to me there is no excuse for completely shutting your own kid completely out of your life while also preventing them from getting any kind of help. I understand depression and freezing up, I’ve been there, and I still even not being an adult managed to consider the impact of my behavior on other people. If he was that bad off, he should have given me up to be raised by someone else. My mom’s parents asked and he wouldn’t agree to let me stay with them full time. I could have had a dad that was able to occasionally tell me he loved me even if it was just a text message. Alternatively, I could have lived with my grandparents and had people around me who cared about me every day even if that wasn’t my father. I got neither and every request for help of any kind was met with “suck it up”. I can empathize with having to function while breaking down inside, but I can’t empathize with what he did.
   
3. I gather from relatives (who have backed off after some hard boundary setting) that my father and step-mother split not long ago and are in divorce proceedings, which is why he reached out now and why the rest of the family was upset with how I responded at the time - he wasn’t in a good place already. I’ve told them that if they care about him to encourage him to keep away from me, refuse to pass on any messages, and try to get him into inpatient care or something if they’re that worried he’s going to do something rash. I don’t want anything to do with him and I’ve told them that I don’t want to hear about anything that happens after this point, but the rest of his family love him so for their sake I hope he pulls himself together.
   

AITA responded to my father’s request for a relationship with a PowerPoint UPDATE (profile update by u/throwaway_1028585, Jan 4th, 2023)
A bunch of people have been asking for an update so I’m doing it here instead of on the main sub because the original blew up more than I want to deal with again.
I had a talk with my paternal grandparents over Christmas vacation and showed them the PowerPoint. They had no idea that things were as bad as they were or that I was actively suicidal at the time and the “accidents” I had as a teen were not really accidents. So, while they think it was still dangerously harsh under the circumstances, they understand better where I’m coming from, admit that my father messed up big time, and that the family should have been more involved with me instead of just supporting him and my brother. They said that on the surface they thought I was fine and just having trouble adjusting, but if they had known about the things described in the journal they would have insisted my father get help. They do want me to reconcile with him, but they understand why it might be too late for that so they’ve agreed not to bring him up unless I do first and not pass on information either way. So, that was actually productive.
As for my father, I know a lot of people think I’ll regret it if I don’t reconcile/forgive/whatever, but I’m not so sure that’s true. I’ve tried to imagine a conversation with him that wouldn’t make things worse, and I can’t. Best case scenario, he’s sorry and has a good grovel, but honestly I think hearing that would just make me hate him more. Worst case scenario, nothing has really changed and I have to walk away before I end up with an assault charge. I also just can’t imagine any real benefit or function to having him in my life, so reconnecting seems like a lot of work for no gain. As far as forgiveness, I don’t know if that’s actually possible. Apathy, maybe.
As far as I know, he’s alive. I’ve made it super clear that anyone who tries to give me information about him that I don’t request will also get the chop, so I’m probably not going to get any further updates. I’d rather just go back to forgetting he exists.
For me, I’m probably as fine as I’m going to be. I have therapy and meds. I can pass for a functional human most of the time. My deal with myself is that I have to at least stick around until my maternal grandparents pass so they don’t hurt and I can wrap things up for them, so in the mean time I’m working on finding other raison d’etra. Spite, possibly.
I got a letter (posted in EstrangedAdultChild by u/throwaway_1028585, Feb 9th, 2023)
I’m not in the best headspace right now, so bear with me. I’ve been fully NC from my bio father for 6 years, but effectively for longer. It’s a whole situation that I can’t explain quickly, but the readers digest version is neglect and emotional abuse so bad I started researching how to commit suicide at 14 and coded twice from attempts before 18. I made it very clear to his side of the family that anyone who helped him try to contact me or gave me unrequested information about him would also be cut off (my maternal grandparents have some leeway because I trust their judgment more to act in my best interest, they would only pass information on if there was a benefit to me to have it).
Anyway, now that his family v2.0 has tragically imploded, he tried to find me to “talk” late last year and my m-grandparents let me know to avoid him blindsiding me. I sent him a pretty blatant “in case you have questions, here’s all the ways you royally fucked up, don’t contact me again” response without letting him get his hands on my real contact info. My p-grandparents said he’s been having a mental health crisis ever since, but they agreed to respect that I’m NC and not pass on information.
I got a letter today that was sent through my department at university and there’s no name on it, but I recognize the handwriting on the envelope even after all this time. My first inclination is to just burn it without opening it because I’ve set a very clear and hard boundary already and this is just a slap in the face. There doesn’t seem to be much point in entertaining it even without replying. At the same time, there are a couple of practical reasons it might be good for someone to look at it, e.g. if it’s a suicide note his parents and law enforcement need to see it.
So, fellow estrangers, would you destroy it, read it, or pass it on to a family member to deal with?
Post by u/grievedfather on /AmItheAsshole
AITA for trying to contact my estranged daughter? (Feb 24th, 2023, original post deleted, preserved in the comments)
First time on reddit someone told me this might be a good place to get a neutral point of view. I know I have made some mistakes, but I’m trying to fix them and getting called an asshole for trying so I don’t know what to think anymore.
I lost my first wife in our late 20s our daughter was very young at the time and it was hard neither of us coped with her death well and between trying to keep a roof over our heads and take care of my daughter and deal with losing the love of my life it was a bad time. I know I wasn’t always the best dad and I regret that. I remarried later and my daughter never got along with her step-mother as much as we tried it just got worse when our son was born. He was born with a brain tumor that nobody caught until he was a toddler and it was like losing my first wife all over again. My wife was busy looking after him and doing hospital stays and I was working 7 days a week to pay for everything. I know now that my daughter got lost in all of that more than I realized at the time I was just trying to keep going and a difficult teenager was one more big thing on a whole stack of big things. She left on her 18 birthday and I haven’t seen or heard from her since. She still talks to my parents so I know she’s ok but she told them she wants nothing to do with me. I thought maybe she would be willing to talk after awhile so I gave her some space for a few years and then reached out through her other grandparents. I know she’s mad but what she sent back was so hateful. I know it’s my own fault but I’m scared for her even more now. She wants to be left alone, but I think that’s going to hurt her more in the end.
I tried one more time but this time I got a call from her grandparents telling me that basically I’m an asshole for continuing to try to talk to her and to leave her alone. My parents think it’s ok to try but if she doesn’t want to talk not to press and I’m trying not to. But am I the asshole for even trying to make this right now?
I'm fucking done. (profile update by u/throwaway_1028585, Feb 24th, 2023)
To the idiot that linked my account to my bio father, fuck you. I don’t know who you are, but I hope something truly, deeply unpleasant happens to you.
I was sticking around on here to give talking to other people like me a shot on my therapist’s suggestion, but fuck that, I should have known even coming here in the first place was too risky. Thank you to the people who talked to me and tried to help. I’m out.
Another Note: The original post here was made by u/swankycelery, and this was made with their permission. Please check out their other posts here!

I am not OP. OP is u/exgfbabydrama
This was posted in legaladviceUK
Thos is my first attempt at a BoRU post so any issues/rule violations with this OP please let me know so I can improve in future posting.
Trigger warnings reproductive coercion, harassment
First Post - 11 Nov 22
Hi I am in England.
This is a situation I’m really stressed out by and can’t seem to get any clear information on.
My ex partner and I are both female. We were together for several years and discussed having a child. We agreed to use one of our eggs and go through the route of a licensed clinic with sperm donation. We had a timeframe in mind of when to start it so we had enough time to save up etc.
Anyway, my partner decided she did not want to go down this route and wait and decided to post on social media asking seriously for sperm donation to do an at-home insemination with a turkey baster. She mentioned it but as a joke to me and I told her that was a bad idea due to several risks and the potential for the donor to want to be in the child’s life. I assumed it was a joke but made it clear I would not support it.
Well, against my wishes, she did it. She didn’t tell me until after she had been in contact with a random man, got the donation and had a positive pregnancy test. I told her I did not want anything to do with the child and broke up with her and subsequently moved out.
She is about 5 months pregnant now and is harassing me demanding me to be involved with the child, especially financially. She has admitted in texts that she concocted getting pregnant without my consent and I have evidence of me saying I never agreed to it which she has also admitted. I have taken screenshots of these exchanges but I’m stumped in general.
I do not want to be a parent to this child so can I legally be forced to?
ETA: she has not mentioned the donor but I do not think any legal paperwork was signed so surely he’s the one she could chase?
Top comment
From what you’ve described, no. You have no responsibility at all.
You didn’t actually provide any eggs to the clinic, just discussed doing it at some point in the future? And even if you had, she went down the self-insemination route instead. So no biological connection to you at all?
Your ex got pregnant with a stranger and is now harassing you. Nothing more than that.
update - 11 March 23
Several months ago, I made a post about my ex-partner who deliberately got herself pregnant via an anonymous donor rather than through a clinic as we are both female.
My ex initially was harassing me with texts and messages demanding that I be involved with the child. I had screenshots of her admitting she got pregnant behind my back so I made sure to keep them before I blocked her on everything. I even changed all my privacy settings on social media.
After I moved out, I moved back in with my parents who were very understanding. I got my ex’s family harassing me and I decided I didn’t want to live in the same city as them all anymore. I didn’t want to, but I spoke to my work and asked if there were any openings literally anywhere else in England and there was. I was just so done with everything that I took the opportunity to move away and I did.
My parents helped me move and and I found a lovely little one bedroom flat that is near a river. I live in a small town now about 4 hours away and as much as I thought I’d hate it, I’m beginning to enjoy it. I did block all of my ex’s family but they kept making multiple accounts to contact me.
The last contact was about two weeks ago stating my ex has given birth to a baby girl. Apparently the donor is not interested in being a father and my ex is all on her own and needs some help and support. Not my problem. I’m just over the whole situation and it was extreme but I just decided to delete all social media. I informed my friends and family and I also changed my number and gave that out to trusted people.
I guess a pretty boring update. New job. New flat. I didn’t expect to be single after 8 years but what can you do? I think I might give a dating app a try.
OOP commented below and wanted me to add it into the OP
Hey everyone. Original OP here. Someone told me my post made it into a wider audience here. Just wanted to say thanks for all the support and kind words!
I realise now my ex and her family are all nuts and I’m several hours away from them now. I feel sorry for the baby but not my problem anymore.
I’m enjoying my life in a quiet English town ☺️
ETA: also hundreds of people are assuming she cheated on me and concocted a donor story. I mean we’re both lesbians so I do find it highly unlikely she’d sleep with a man even if she was desperate for a baby. I do know plenty of people scout for donors online so she probably is telling the truth but I don’t really care.
The whole thing is bullshit. I want to be a mother too, but im not gonna pick any random off the street. I’m not a spring chicken myself, im pushing 40. I would very much like to become a mother before it’s too late so maybe I could start the process via a clinic like my original plan but just do it myself this time.

Unrelated fact for spoiler space: Squid are carnivores who feed on fish, crustaceans, and in some cases, other squid.
**I am NOT OP. Original post by deleted in RBI**
This has been lightly edited for flow.
​
trigger warnings: mention of suicide. Suggestion of fertility problems
​
mood spoilers: the brother is safe
---
I thought my brother was being tricked into joining an MLM but now I think it was a cult or something??(https://www.reddit.com/RBI/comments/tbohcv/i_thought_my_brother_was_being_tricked_into/) - March 11 2022, and OOP edited in answers to questions and a final update into the same post.
I don’t even really know where to start tbh, me (F28) and my brother (M25) have always been very close considering we’re only 3 years apart in age and started hanging around with the same friend circle in our mid teens.
I had to move back in with my parents after a failed house share (long story) and my brother has lived in a house down the road from my parents home for the past 4 years.
He works from home but only part time and hates his job.
He came over about a month ago for coffee during his lunchbreak.
So we were chatting and he told me about this girl his friend Kieran (not really familiar with him but know who he is sorta) had set him up with on a blind date. He was really excited.
He went on the date a fortnight ago and I heard all about it the next day. I’m gonna call her “Sarah”.
​
So he told me Sarah was gorgeous, a year older than him, tall and slim, long blonde hair and green eyes, he said she’s probably “one of the most beautiful women he’s ever met”. I was so happy for him because I don’t think he’s had a gf since he was 18, and the way he was talking about this girl made her sound like they got on like a house on fire.
He brought up that at the end of the date she did ask him if he’d like to meet her aunt and sisters, because he’d mentioned he’s unhappy with his work life and she said that her family have their own business and he should come round for a meeting the next evening. I thought that was weird but he sounded really excited about it.
I did make my feelings known, telling him it sounded like an MLM and they were going to try and recruit him. He just laughed it off and said he’d be going round to their house to discuss it and if it was an MLM he’d nope right outta there. I said okay, be safe, have fun, call me if you need help or for me to pick you up etc.
so a few days pass and I sent him a text asking him how it went, he replied saying it definitely wasn’t an MLM and there were more people there than just her sisters and aunt.
He said there were around 11 women there, he was the only male. He got there and they made him tea and all the women were just chit chatting until the “aunt” (a woman in her late 40s) comes out and shushes them all. They all take their seats, including my brother who sits down next to Sarah, and the aunt begins to speak.
He said he wasn’t really 100% sure on what she was talking about but it sounded like she was reading gospel passages or something, bits of English and bits of another language unidentifiable by my bro.
The aunt asked my bro to stand up beside her at the front of the living room and all the women started passing around a basket and filling it with cash.
​
Apparently soon after this “collection” was finished the women started singing in this other language and then dispersed around the house. He said from that moment onwards it was just like a regular party/get together.
He was a bit baffled but an hour later all the women had left and he was helping Sarah clean up glasses and plates when the aunt came over and sat down at the kitchen table. She handed my bro the basket of money (which he didn’t take so idk how much those women had given) and said to him that if he comes back every week for their meetings he will receive the same, if not more, payment for “his presence”.
He asked Sarah later that night once he’d left what the heck he just attended and she said it was a “family tradition” and “as a man he should be rewarded” and she was really adamant about him coming back the next week. He didn’t go and blocked her on everything.
What in the hell did my brother attend??? Why were they just giving him money for doing nothing??
Also, I just wanna make it clear that I know my brother very well and he’s a very honest person. He did not provide any sort of service for these women nor did they ask him to. He (and I) literally have no idea wtf any of this was about
​
EDIT/CORRECTION I mentioned in a comment I didn’t think my brother had spoken to Kieran since the blind date. I asked my brother about this and he said no, he has spoken to Kieran and Kieran was quite upset with him for blocking Sarah and wanted to know why. My brother said he just felt uncomfortable around her family and didn’t want anything more to do with her. He then asked Kieran how he knows Sarah and this is a bit odd but Kieran said that Sarah was his (now deceased) brother’s girlfriend’s sister. Kieran’s brother took his own life back at the beginning of 2020 and Sarah is the younger sister of his girlfriend whom he was dating at the time of his passing. I also don’t know why my dumbass brother wouldn’t have asked how he knew her BEFORE agreeing on the blind date 🙄 but I guess this is how Kieran knows Sarah 🤷🏼‍♀️
​
Some relevant comments and replies from OOP:

Are you based in Munster? It could be a fertility ritual.

​
OOP replied:
Leinster! You think? Is that common?
​
first person responds:

I’m not sure if it’s common, but it sounds likely. All of the women were of ‘child bearing’ age (18-30), your brother was treated as an object rather than a human (indicating he played some sort of prop role) and the whole thing sounds a bit ritualistic.
I could be completely wrong but that was my first take on it. Also there are some, shall we say, slightly more holistic women in the south west (where I’m from).

​
Another deleted user theorized that it was Santeria using terms that were deemed inappropriate for the sub.*
​
OOP replied:

Okay okay - that makes ALOT of sense. He said there was a lot of Catholic imagery around the house (but we’re in Ireland so suspected nothing of that tbh) but he said there was also some weird wooden masks on the walls as well as locks of hair inside frames? Lmao that sounds weird but I thought maybe it was a remembrance thing for a deceased family member or something. I’m gonna text him and ask more about the actual women themselves, what the language sounded like and if there was anything else weird he noticed around the house etc

More detail from OOP about the hair:

He said there were about 4 small frames containing rings of hair inside and tiny words underneath each of them but not in the English language (he said def not Gaelic or Latin either, and not a language he recognised so that means french, German, Italian and Spanish are also out of the picture)

----------------
OOP questioned her brother about his experience until he unblocked Sarah and asked her for an explanation. OOP provided Sarah's answers in a comment:
https://www.reddit.com/RBI/comments/tbohcv/comment/i0dxn3k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) - March 12, 2022
UPDATE So here’s what he found out.

• The language that was spoken/written was called “Coptic” and as far as Google tells me it’s spoken only in Egypt and “Coptic is today spoken liturgically in the Coptic Orthodox and Coptic Catholic Church”
• The locks of hair are from deceased loved ones and the writing underneath basically just translates to “never forgotten”
• The “business” ran by Sarah’s grandmother is basically performing rituals each week where women who are struggling to get pregnant come and essentially listen to her weird sermons and with a man present are able to “absorb the masculine” whatever the fuck that means, and it’s supposed to help them conceive essentially.
• The payment doesn’t 100% go to the man who takes part, he gets 30% and the aunt takes 70%
• Honestly I’m a pretty spiritual person, but sounds like a scam to me 🙃 and I’m kinda pissed my brother was almost dragged into this. This woman is basically just taking advantage of others who are desperate and vulnerable and taking their money because they believe she’s possessed by the spirit of some ancient Egyptian god. Sad af

​
*Note from the reposter for people who visit the original thread: The Santeria commenter argued with another deleted poster, and due to a reddit glitch that happens when the real OP deletes their account, all the deleted users got the OP tag on mobile. So it looks like OOP brought up Santeria then fought herself about it, but that is not what actually happened.
​
**Reminder - I am not the original poster.**

I am NOT OP. Original post by u/fidgetspinnsterin TalesFromTheFrontDesk
trigger warnings: bullying, verbal abuse
mood spoilers: Karen in the wild
 
We can't get rid of her - November 2022
I need to get some things off my chest.
Since I started as a front desk agent at a 3-star business hotel early this past summer, there has been an elderly woman who has slowly but surely descended into complete delusional and harrassing behavior.
First story I heard of her was in our shift notes. She was complaining to one of my coworkers that it was dangerous to have foreigners in a hotel because they "carry diseases." She later told me that a technical issue with her TV was probably "the Chinese." POC staying at this hotel have complained about her for inching away from them or generally breaking social norms. She told a Black police academy student she "doesn't support" his profession while also backing away from him slowly, which put me in the super great position between validating this guest's perspective that this was a "skin color thing" while trying not to gossip about other guests. In retrospect, I should have validated him completely without referencing her other actions -- lesson learned for me.
Months go by and every week this guest requests her folio printed out and sent to her, which is normal, but the way she did it was "Can I have a folio? Even though (manager) overprices the market items" or something like that with a little guffaw to florish the interaction with passive aggression.
Fast forward a couple months, she's started saying we are trying to harm her, that we've been violent, that the engineers threw corrosive acid on her fridge, and that her doctor said that she has an infection caused by the chemicals used to clean her carpet. We didn't even use chemicals, it was just warm and maybe soapy water (because the cleaning reason wasn't for anything severe), and then she turned around and said we ought to be cleaning her carpet properly. So she lies routinely about us trying to poison her. She also called the desk one night sounding like she was choking. Our FDA that night called 911 because it sounded like the guest couldn't breath. The FDA went back on the line with the guest, who was suddenly perfectly fine and said she "choked on coffee"???? When the FDA told her EMS was on the way, she said "Oh. Let them come!" and then kept them for upwards of 30 minutes to tell them about the trials and tribulations she faces at our property.
She's made one of our night shift workers sob because she threatened to send the worker (let's call her Sara) to jail. She has no power to do this obviously (and Sara did nothing illegal) but this worker is very, very sensitive and has apparently been falsley accused and consequently faced jail time in the past. So the whole thing was very traumatizing to her. The nightmare guest follows her around during her night shift and films her doing her night shift duties to document her "illegal activities." I don't think cleaning the pool area is a crime, but whatever.
The morning I came in to see Sara sobbing in the office of this woman's abuse was one of glorious catharthis in the end. The nightmare guest came to the desk while Sara was still there at the adjacent desk (there are two). She asked me to print all 48 of her folios are something. I was cold and civil, as I always have been with her. She started talking to me about Sara's "illegal behavior" and "false accusations" and some other delusional BS. Sara is a very petite, high-pitch-voiced woman that says "sorry" way too much, and I was naturally feeling very protective.
Our exchange went as follows. I told her not to talk to me about Sara and that I wasn't interested in what she had to say. She got all huffy and says "I am a paying customer!" as if that means I have to do whatever she wants and be told lies and a bunch of information I couldn't even do anything about if it were true. I snap back, "Actually, you're a nightmare!" She gets all angry and shaky in the way only senior citizens can and says she won't be spoken to in this disrespectful tone, to which I respond, "Oh yeah? How's it feel?"
This whole time I kept my voice down to avoid disturbing guests in the breakfast area. All for not. Sara starts YELLING at this guest for trying to intimidate her, threaten her freedom, etc. I put my hands gently on Sara's shoulders and very gently pushed her towards the back office and shut the door in an effort to deescalate the situation. Another coworker actually called the police (which seemed extra but whatever) who took statements from the guest and my manager. All of this happened before 8am.
We tried to kick her out, but in our region, guest's inhabiting any accomodation for upwards of 30 days have tennant rights. So a formal eviction was filed. She somehow convinced the judge that this should go to a jury trial. There was a hearing about this. She has been scheduled for a full jury trial. Months from now. She is literally like a stubborn victorian ghost. She walks the halls all night and her moods are so erradic. It's really sad, honestly, but mostly just pathetic and annoying. She HATES us, she hates the property, she feels harrassed and unsafe and accuses everyone that talks back to her of "violence" even if all we do is tell her to leave us alone and stop repeating all these details of fictional events that most of us have no control over anyways. And yet, she WON'T LEAVE. She is literally representing herself in the trial, which I can't believe is also going to be supported by taxpayer dollars purely by existing. She has sued multiple major hotels for conspiracy to harm, overcharging, etc. She has been dismissed every time in the end. She's a con artist.
I hope someone enjoyed this very long tale.
Edit: 30 days, not 3. Typo. I’m so embarrassed
 
Update: We can’t get rid of her - January 2023
Link to original post: https://www.reddit.com/TalesFromTheFrontDesk/comments/z97r88/we_cant_get_rid_of_he?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Lots of you asked me to update when I originally posted this. Today is finally the day!
Since my last post, I signed an affidavit about her conduct (she threw laundry at a housekeeper) on property with our franchise and my GM. Guest accused me of perjury when discovering this online and is threatening to sue me and our GM for “billions”, etc etc. She also started saying that someone outside was stalking her — it was literally my coworkers relative that picks them up and is only there for 5 minutes at a time twice a day. Delusional stuff.
Well the purpose of the affidavit was for a summary judgement that would fast track the eviction. The summary judgement was granted last week! Though her story is that the bacteria all over the room we “force” her to stay in was causing such detrimental health issues that doctors told her she HAD to leave. There’s no mold obviously. Her room is fine — even better now that she’s gone!
The exit was anti climactic but sweet nonetheless. She used all our luggage carts, told me I was going to hell, and asked me to keep track of her stuff while she waited for her ride lol. I was happy to help her out the door. She didn’t make a huge scene at her departure, so at least she has her dignity? As long as we forget every other day of her stay.
I’m not sure what the deal with the jury trial is now. She can’t come back because we won’t rent to her. She doesn’t have a room. She left of her “own volition,” according to her, and the whole thing didn’t even require a police escort. As far as I know she also hasn’t been charged for her room since September. I don’t know what is happening there, either, but the hotel I’m at isn’t struggling and no one even cares about the money. We’re just happy she’s gone.
TLDR; we got rid of her!
 
Update in comments:
Update on that! My AGM charged the ENTIRE BALANCE today. Idk who was paying her bill but they are loaded. Some charitable, well meaning idiot probably
 
Reminder - I am not the original poster.

I am NOT OP. Original post from /webdev by PirateApples on February 20, 2023:
Relevant info: in the software world, GitHub is a common place to host code, either publicly or privately. It also has a feature called GitHub Pages which is a way to host websites on GitHub as well. It is not a template engine or website builder, like Squarespace, Wix, or Webflow.

Me and my friends have spent the past month working very hard on a submission for the TSA Webmaster competition and we were really excited for how far we could go with it. We've all learned a lot about the web design process and working collaboratively. However, on the day of judging, our team wasn't listed on the results with no explanation. Today one of my friends decided to send and email and we were told our submission was disqualified for using "Template engine websites, tools, and sites. " We programmed every line of our site by ourselves and even left a link to our public GitHub where you can see the entire history of the code base. We've emailed the coordinator and all she said is the decision is final. Me and my team worked really hard for a long time on this thing by ourselves and it sucks to be told that we didn't. What do we do from here?
Project GitHub btw: https://github.com/thstsa/spacetourism
EDIT: Still waiting to talk to our school's CTE director. Changed the url to tsaspacetourism.netlify.app/ but I recommend still viewing it on https://thstsa.github.io/spacetourism/ , cuz Netlify unfortunately has a rate limit

Relevant comments:

You should email again saying what you’ve said here. That you’ve worked really hard on getting this where it is, including all the code you guys put into it on GitHub with the commit history. Ask her specifically why you were disqualified, and that you’d like at least an explanation. Most importantly, CC in someone who is in charge of her.

OP, this is for real the best option, and a valuable lesson in dealing with lazy people.
Here's what's likely happening:
They made this decision, and they're lazy and don't want to go back and defend it, expecially if they're now aware that they're wrong. They're trying to sweep this under the rug. When someone stonewalls you wrongly, you go over their head and you CC their boss/director. This is a power-move and it has absolutely no downside for you. Just be professional through the whole situation.
If they still come back without any explanation and you get stonewalled, well, wear this is a badge of honor. You wrote something so good that the judges think you cheated. You should be extremely proud of yourself.

OP: Thanks for the encouragement! The event coordinator was in charge of the regional level of the competition, so I sent an email with what you said to the people in charge of the state level. The state people said that they talked to our school CTE director(the person that's in charge of our school's CS, business, etc. programs). My friends and I plan on talking to her tomorrow.

Another commenter suggests it's not GitHub as a template engine that's the problem but hosting anything on it at all. Commenters below call it a "braindead rule." OP replies asking whether they could make the GitHub repository private instead of public, which it currently is.

I’m a former TSA advisor and I’ve previously coordinated state and National events such as this one. One of the keys to winning TSA events is reading the rules and reading them carefully.
The reason you were disqualified is because it cannot be hosted on GitHub per the rules and regulations. Check out regulation E.
“Template engine websites, tools, and sites that generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files, such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit, are NOT permitted.”
Even though you might have coded it all, it shouldn’t be hosted on GitHub. Personally, I think the rules committee needs to address this, but nothing can be done now. Switch your hosting and submit it to States.

OP: Ahhhh I see. I was under the belief that we couldn't use github tools to generate any HTML. I kinda just argued with another commenter who claimed the same thing you're saying. Awkward...
Also, we can still submit to state even if we didn't get past regionals? I would love to know!

Yeah sadly these are not always the most technically sound rules. Also, you can’t rely that the judges will know anything about web dev or design. They are given guidelines to follow and try to follow them as closely as possible.
As a career developer and former event coordinator, this should not have been an issue. However, the rules are poorly written.
As for submitting to states, you’ll need to check with your advisor, but I don’t think this is typically an event that requires placing at the regional level first. Hopefully not!!

OP: Just wondering for fun...if me and my friends bought a cheap domain name and didn't link our github, meaning there was no way for anyone to know it was hosted on github, we wouldn't have been DQ'd?

Just change the repo to private and add your friends. That should get the job done.
For hosting you can use netlify. They provide you with a domain with .netlify.app iirc.
If and only if the rules mentioned only github and not git-like sites, you could use gitlab, but it is risky and I recommend the previous option

OP talks to their event coordinator and updates 2 days later on the original post on February 22, 2023:

OP: We talked to her and it turns out, she was the one who judged our submission. She disqualified us for hosting on GitHub and said its too late to do anything about it. I talk about it more in my latest post

They also make a full update post:

I recommend reading the beginning of this story in my previous post.
Or you can read the entire story in my medium post.
But if you don't feel like doing that, here's the TDLR of past events: Friends and I worked hard for ages on a website for TSA's Webmaster competition. Got accused of using "templating tools" and got stonewalled after trying to rebuttal. Eventually got told to talk to some important teacher at school...
We were finally able to talk to our school's CTE(Career and Technology) director and explain our situation. I told her about our website and how we were accused of cheating, even though we provided a public GitHub repo containing the history of the project. She then revealed that she had actually judged our project and explained that it was disqualified for using "GitHub, the templating engine"(Yes, she called GitHub a templating engine). She then pointed me to this rule:
I. Template engine websites, tools, and sites that
generate HTML from text, markdown, or script files,
such as Webs, Wix, Weebly, GitHub, Jekyll, and Replit,
are NOT permitted.
Apparently, GitHub is not the industry standard for code collaboration and version control, an expected tool for anyone entering the industry and a priceless skill for any aspiring developer. No, it's a template engine, along the likes of Wix and Weebly. While yes, it's in the rules, the obvious interpretation that I expected most people to use was "Don't use GitHub or anything else to get templates or generate site for you," which we didn't do. I tried to explain our side of the story, but she said that even if she called the coordinator personally, the decision was set in stone. So it looks like that's it. This is really disappointing, but on the bright side, my friends and I are really proud of each other and we learned a lot about professionally dealing with inconveniences. There's always next year ig...
For those curious, here's our site and our GitHub repo.
EDIT: Just wanted to clarify, I'm not mad at my CTE director or anything. She's actually pretty nice, just put in a position where she had to judge based on a very vaguely written rule

Commenters commiserate:

Wow that's really trash I'm sorry... How can any organization working with programming expect to be taken seriously if it doesn't understand the most basic industry tools. I also can't imagine you were the only ones who stored their project on GitHub.

This doesn't surprise me at all as a CS teacher. Most people who haven't left for industry are fossils who think the best way to teach code is to drill algorithms. I teach CS50 and it's not widely used at all, despite the fact that it literally sets the foundation for real professional practice. Most high school CS classes teach in code.org's scratch-like block coding.

You got the right takeaway from this. You'll find that such incompetence is not rare, so you may have not won but earned something that all the other participants did not, something outside the scope of development.
I'd recommend keeping this in mind when "describe a difficulty you've encountered and how you dealt with it" inevitably comes up at an interview.

Some commenters ask OP to see if they can have the rules changed for future participants:

I dont know anything about this competition, but hate to see that you were unfairly and wrongly treated.
I googled, found tsaweb.org, and clicked around. There's a board of directors, and emails listed too. Would you consider escalating this issue? Maybe not even for yourself/team at this point, but educating them and helping prevent future mistakes from happening.
If you do, remember to be professional about it if you want it to go anywhere.

This. Even if it's too late, an extremely respectful letter pointing out the issue to a carpet bombed CCed C-Suite email. Some sample points to include:

• If a CMS such as WP, Drupal, or Joomla was allowed as long as a template engine wasn't used, and GH's template engine was not allowed, that the use of GH to host version control is firmly within the rules.
  
• They are free to have their engineers review your repository and commits for any evidence of using a template engine. While you're sure they would know how to do that, here's a link to the beginning of your commit history where they can see the site unfold: https://github.com/thstsa/spacetourism/commits?after=2434870a0f70011bae789e0b4593398c987bf30b+104 .
  
• If using version control is against the rules, than that should be stated to avoid future confusion.
  
• You all worked extremely hard for a contest whose goal was to promote interest in web development - this obfuscated interpretation of the rules is antithetical to the spirit of the contest.
  
• Going to emphasize this again. You are writing to help future kids, so their spirits aren't crushed when applying "21st century skills" such as version control. You're not writing as a big fuck you. If you impress them with respect, boundaries, breadth and depth of knowledge, you can make a powerful impression that can pay off in the future. Maybe in the summer there's suddenly an internship within an engineering department for you, a friend of a friend pulling some strings. You're playing the game of life now, and your first pawn got knocked over. Play it out, not all losses actually lose.
  

OP mentions that it might be too late, however

OP: Unfortunately they also told us it's too late

Might be too late for the competition, but not too late to try to get the rules changed for anyone else who comes after you.

I am NOT OP. Original post by u/Pl4gu3d0g in TalesFromTheFrontDesk
trigger warnings: per request: potential antisemetic
mood spoilers: disbelief at the idiocy that exists in some places
OOP put the word REDACTED in place of any identifying information. I have edited this to generic terms (dog, guest, worker, employee, etc) to make it easier to read.
EDIT: As per advice, I have removed hyperlinks to CRL's "organization"
This is a LONG post!
 
My co-worker brings her dog to work. It's a problem. She was asked to stop after a few 'incidents,' so she wrote us an absolutely crazy 4 page memo. - September 8, 2022
Title. Was told this post would be appreciated here, so enjoy.
I live in a small town and started working as a night auditor in a hotel a few months back. I rarely ever interact with other employees, let alone the guests. I enjoy it, lots of time to read and putz around on reddit. Recently, due to several wildfires and the mandatory evacuations they created, we've had an influx of long-stay guests who've lost their homes. We also have several fire crews in house, which has been fun. (No sarcasm there, they're great.)
The issue, however, is this. The other night auditor brings her dog to work, it is not a service animal. While the Hotel is pet friendly, she has been asked to stop bringing her pet in with her. She has ignored these requests.
Recently, we've been getting complaints. Her dog has chased people through the building, attempted to bite guests, attack children, and fight other dogs. In response these complaints, she started locking her dog in the guest dining area / kitchen. Her dog has been pooping in the kitchen, which is an issue. When our bosses finally put the boot down and told her no more pets, she wrote a 4 page 'memo' about the issue. Short version, she admitted that her dog had done everything stated above. But the reason people were complaining was because of a 'satanic reptilian illuminati' plot against her and her pet.
I wish I was kidding. Here is the memo, in all it's glory. I've redacted identifying names, including the dogs name.
Communication Post September 8, 2022:
“At this time, it would be best practice to leave all employee pets at home due to several complaints and concerns from guests. While we understand that we know and love the pets of staff members, we cannot possibly tolerate pets being aggressive to guests.”
September 16, 2022
Dear [HOTEL] Staff,
This letter is in response to the comment above, which was posted in the Communication Log on September 8, 2022. If you have any comments, please feel free to post them at the bottom of this letter.
A bit of background about [DOG], my canine companion. She is one year old and has been with me at this hotel since she was 8 weeks old.
Together, she and I are the Night Auditors. It’s worked out well because she stays awake with me during the shift and we both sleep during the day.
She likes all of the front desk staff and gets excited when it is time to come to work so she can greet them and begin her shift. So far, she likes [WORKER 1] and [WORKER 2] the best, possibly because they have made her feel welcome and they are kind to her.
Many of the guests also like her and she has received ‘many’ positive compliments from them.
She has gone through various stages of development and growth and presently she is at the stage of finding her voice and honing her socialization skills in a public setting.
She and I eat a plant-based diet to teach her non-violence and harmlessness. Her food is scientifically fortified, (which I have to purchase online from a specialty company), in order for her to take in all of the necessary nutrients to keep her strong and healthy, in body, mind and spirit. I take her training seriously and the ultimate goal is for her to be peaceful, calm, socialized and comfortable with all.
So far, she sees the hotel as ‘her house’ and is presently working on understanding that it is ok that other people besides staff members may come and go through the front door. She barks to announce the arrival of people she doesn’t know, and therefore I keep her gated, behind the desk when guests are circulating about. She does not bark behind the desk. In time, I feel she will relax more and more.
When everyone has gone to sleep, and it is quiet in the hotel, I allow her to play with her toys in the lobby area, and she likes to follow me into the laundry room, etc., while I go about my cleaning duties.
Her socialization training is something we diligently work on and there is still room for improvement in this area.
The other night, [EMPLOYEE] informed me that two guests approached her on September 8th and yelled at her about [DOG]. Apparently, the guests stated that [DOG] barked at them.
It is possible that [DOG] barked at them, as stated. However, I can’t recall who this is or verify this because neither of these people approached me about this issue or came to the desk to speak with me directly.
I apologize again [EMPLOYEE], for this, as I know it doesn’t feel good to be on the receiving end of a complaint or when someone ‘unloads’ on us.
It was also brought to my attention from a different staff member that the man named [GUEST] who stayed with us on August 31st (folio [GUEST]), complained to the front desk that [DOG] barked at him and chased him down the hall. This I can verify to be true.
It was ‘after hours’, quiet in the hotel and she was following me around while I cleaned. Mr. [GUEST] unexpectedly walked down the hall and it startled her. But she also chased after him, as he walked away, and expressed her disapproval of him. I redirected her immediately and apologized on her behalf.
A bit later, the lobby and hotel were quiet again, no one was around, and so I allowed her to play with her toys in the lobby area.
It goes without saying, that the lobby is a public area, and the guests should always feel comfortable coming and going as they like, but Mr. [GUEST] was making his presence known deliberately to rouse [DOG], and walked through the lobby several times, in the wee hours of the morning to smoke cigarettes in the front of the building.
I finally realized that he was doing this purposely to harass her and I put her in the other room with the door shut. His response was to drop an ‘F-bomb’ at her. And, the following morning, he reported the incident to the front desk, and was ‘rewarded’ a free night stay on the hotel, due to his complaint.
*Adding here that Mr. [GUEST] was charged a [HOTEL] cleaning fee due to housekeeping finding towels and sheets soiled with feces and everything had to be thrown away. He is a troubled man, and while we can hold compassion for him, I don’t recommend he is allowed back at the hotel.
As stated above, there is room for improvement with [DOG]’s socialization skills, which she and I are dedicated towards making her a success. It is important that she behaves properly and like a nice ‘young lady’, while she is here. She is a loving, funny, and loyal little being, and it is a blessing that she is here on planet earth. She has helped me to tolerate the grave shift hours too, with her excellent company and companionship she provides.
I’m now going to explain something that may seem strange, but it is necessary to add this, because it is the truth, and it relates to what happened with the complaints against [DOG].
Some of you are already aware, that my second job is Lightworking. I am a Lightworker for Planetary Ascension. Recently, I completed some work to shine Light upon the Reptilian negative alien races, who are present on this earth plane, and who are behind Child Trafficking. The Reptilians have demonstrated vicious, predatory behaviors and they are ‘very dangerous’ towards humans and animals. This information about their presence has been kept from mainstream society and the controlled media spins half-truths and lies about what is truly happening on planet earth. However, things are heating up planet wide and a Full Disclosure Event will be taking place in the near future.
Other things that these invading Reptilian races are involved with include human abduction, forced breeding programs, forced experimentation and hybridization of human DNA, Satanic Ritual Abuse, Adrenochrome Harvesting, Pedophilia, the Covid ‘Plandemic’, Chem Trails, the 911 terrorist tragedy, and uncountable, other crimes against humanity.
I have studied these negative alien races since 2015 and I am acutely familiar with their retaliatory attacks against those of us who stand up for the Light and shine light upon their darkness.
The recent complaint against [DOG] was a deliberate and planned attack against me (the reptilians targeted [REDACTED ? ] and used the situation to get back at me), to retaliate because of my recent work in calling out their Child Trafficking crimes to the Texas CASA. My contact to the Texas CASA was on the same day, August 31st, that Mr. [GUEST] made his appearance, and the other two complaints came afterwards, for ‘three in a row’.
Noting also that the reptilians are reading this post, as they are able to track, spy and interfere via advanced technology through television, computers, cell phones, and other devices.
Therefore, I’m letting them know that God is my witness, and I will assist in standing up for those who have no voice, such as those who suffer with Child Trafficking, SRA, etc.
To recap, under normal circumstances, and especially at a hotel which allows dogs, if a dog barks at someone, normally the person would shrug it off, as long as it doesn’t continue (which it didn’t). I redirect [DOG] each time and lovingly encourage her to be peaceful and calm. She also has never nipped at anyone. Her barking is instinctive and with time it will ease up, and I feel confident that she will be more at ease as she gets through this growth stage.
Although [DOG] is absolutely heartbroken that I have left her at home, I am keeping her at home for a few weeks to work more intensely on her training and plan on using a vibrating bark collar to better get her attention. Her time away from the hotel will allow the tension from the dark forces to settle too.
When I feel she has improved with her barking, and listening skills, I plan on bringing her back to work with me.
Thanks for listening and for keeping an open mind and an open heart.
[DOG OWNER]
Edit, Mini Update. Interim Manager was at a corp. retreat until Wednesday. CW and IM have a meeting today. We'll see what happens.
Edit, Update 2 9/23/22- Corporate replied to my email today, thanking for letting them know but informing me that our interim manager would handle it. I-M has decided that Co-Workers dog may return to work with her. Quote, 'Once dog is trained.' No mention of the dog shitting in the dining/kitchen area. No comment on the dog being off leash, attempting to bite kids, nothing. No one seems the least bit concerned about the insane lizard people rant. Due to this, and increasingly lazy/incompetent management, I've begun to look for another part time job. I don't get paid enough to deal with any of this. I'm not sure about the name-and-shame policies on this sub, but if you're at all curious as to where I work message me. Stay safe out there
 
Reptilians From Outer Space, And You! (An Update) - November 2022
Original post here.
Whelp, I was asked to provide updates and I promised I would. Here we go. Important stuff first; Crazy Reptilian Lady (CRL) wasn't fired. Her dog is allowed to return to work with her. Things haven't improved, it's gotten much, much worse.
A lot has happened since my first post, unfortunately, none of it is good. CRL has begun to refuse to do her job, as she's too busy 'doing lightwork to combat the dark forces,' eg, casting 'magic' spells in front of guests instead of doing end-of-day reports. Which has been indescribably fun for me /s. Most recently she freaked out on a guest and their child. Why? Great question, she was kind enough to explain via our internal communication log again. Here's a direct copy-paste;
Imo, that toy is foul looking 🙁 It’s not at all a cute monster that is cuddly and fun to look at.. What a weird and satanic looking creature, masked as a child’s toy, with pretty rainbows, and yet with menacing, scary teeth. The dark forces in this upside down world just keep on keeping on, with their tactics to normalize violence and negativity in our children.
It's a stuffed animal, a rainbow-hued unicorn. Which she somehow found offensive, so she actively tried to 'cleanse' the guest and their child in the lobby. For those curious, this involved a lot of flailing, CRL shouting absolute gibberish, and an attempt to douse both guest & child with water. You'd assume something would be done about it, but you'd be wrong. And friends, it doesn't end there.
I'm sure most if not all of you are familiar with Halloween. Apparently, CRL isn't. Shortly after Halloween, housekeeping found a common costume accessory and brought it to lost and found. Nothing fancy, one of those cheap toy knives with a clear case. You know the ones, you turn it over, the 'blood' oozes out. CRL had a meltdown upon 'discovering' it 'hidden' in the lost and found bucket. She demanded to know who was hiding 'dangerous items' in places where people 'might accidentally hurt themselves.' She then began to accuse other staff members of being part of an insidious plot to harm her at the behest of 'dark forces.' She wouldn't calm down until a member of housekeeping proved to her that it was a toy.
If this was all that's been happening here, I would have been grateful. Unfortunately not. My newest FD agent, let's call him 'Dave,' had a family emergency and attempted to get our 'supervisor' to come in and cover his shift so he could deal with it. She refused, blocked his number, and told our manager that he was threatening her. A week later, a sweet young lady (New Girl, NG) from out of state shows up. She lets us know that she's our new front desk agent, she'd seen the job posting on indeed 4 days ago, applied, and got the job. Dave was immediately fired. On his way out, Dave was told by our manager to 'lose' our supervisor's number. And that if he kept 'harassing her,' they'd press charges against him. Dave was understandably furious. When our supervisor was asked about this situation, she stated; 'It's not my fault that black people cannot manage their work-life balance, I'm not going to come in on my weekend because they don't have their shit together. Dave is aware. Dave has registered complaints with the state, and I'll be testifying on his behalf.
But wait, there's more!
Unfortunately NG got shafted as well, Racist supervisor decided that NG only needed a sum total of 4 hours of training before becoming 'overwhelmed' by the 'responsibility of getting her ready to solo our busiest shifts. NG has never worked in hospitality before, she doesn't know how to work our property management software, she's not even used too, or comfortable with, dealing with 'crowds' of impatient people. It's not her fault, and I feel terrible for her. I've ended up working 10-12 hour shifts just to try to train her and help her with the morning rush. But there's only so much I can do, I'm a busy, grumpy dude who wants to be asleep by 11am.
Anywho, there's an update for those interested.
Tl;Dr; My place of employment doubles as an insane asylum and I'm slowly losing my gorram mind.
 
Two additional update in comments from nine days (March 10, 2023) ago:
I was 'given' my two weeks notice by management. I hadn't put my two weeks in, but was removed from the schedule regardless. I was able to find part time work, but things have been tight. I have been taking online courses, Ave getting 503c status for my car shelter project. Since the Manager decided to fire everyone but the reptilian lady and racist supervisor, I don't have updates. I do know they're struggling to find replacements. I can't rationalize that, but the manager was terrible so what can you do.
Yeah, it was something. Lawyers are having an absolute field day. And thank you, me too. Every day is full of new opportunities though! You're welcome, happy friday!
Reminder - I am not the original poster.

**I am not OOP. OOP is u/FlavorBlastedCheerio in entitledparents
Trigger Warning: Child abuse, domestic violence, financial abuse
Threatened Because of a Haircut February 21, 2023
I'm not sure if this belongs here or AITA but this happened a few weeks ago.
Me(19M)
Step-dad (Referred to as dad for simplicity, M 52)
Mom (F 46)
Girlfriend (F 19)
So a bit of context, I'm currently living at home but actively searching for a place live (in secret from my parents) my dad was active duty military but is now in the reserves and Guarda the gates of the our local military base and has some form of PTSD from his active duty years but refuses to admit it or seek help for it and I am usually the target of his angry outbursts. My mom graduated nursing school last year and is currently working as a nurse. She and my dad have been married for 11 years and had my little sister (8 years old) and due to his relationship with his previous children not working out he has a hyper fixation on keeping her happy but has always been some what stand off-ish towards me but that's a story for another time, let's get into what happened.
One morning after I put my sister on the bus I decided to just chill out for the day before going over to my girlfriends house that evening because it was my first day off in awhile since I work 2 jobs. My dad was leaving for work and before he did he told I needed to get a haircut that day. I told him I can't afford one and I just got one two weeks prior so my hair was still short. He said he didn't care and to "Just borrow money from your mom our your girlfriend, just get it done, no excuses." Than he left. About an hour later I call my mom and let her know what's up. She sighs but doesn't fight it but I told her to hang on. I called the barber shop I go to and ask if my guy was working that day, he was not. That's an issue because every other barber in the area has either messed up my hair really bad or refuses to touch my hair due to the fact that I'm mixed and have thick curly hair and they are afraid they will mess it up. So I call my mom back and let her know my guy isn't working today but I know he will be tomorrow, she says ok and to just go the next day, so we go on with our day. After my mom gets home from work I head out to my girlfriends house at about 5pm, about 15 minutes after I get to her house my mom calls me and says
Mom: "Do they have hair clippers there?"
Me: I don't think so... why?"
Mom: "Pops says if you don't come home with a haircut he's cutting your hair off."
My girlfriend over hears this and having heard what I go through with him all the time says "What the fuck?! No! Ur not gonna let him do that to you, that's abusive as fuck!"
Mom: "Am I on speaker phone?!"
Me: "No"
Mom: "I'm gonna go, I'm tired of getting yelled at today."
click
Im dumbfounded at this point but quickly snap out of it remembering the man im dealing with and how common this sort of thing is for him and look at my girlfriend. Admittedly I looked for clippers in her house, even dog clippers and when I couldn't find any I got desperate enough to ask her to cut my hair with scissors. I know it sounds ridiculous but you have yo understand how much this man scares me, he and I are of similar heights but he is much stronger than I am and much more intimidating and he knows it. He has punched me in the chest before because I "Wasted his tireshine for his car" and rather than normal punishments, he would have me do military exercises for 3 - 4 hours over any little thing. Woke up late,? Exercise. Dishes weren't done? Exercise. Wearing clothes I don't like? Exercise. At one point he made grabbed me by my collar and held me up against a wall infront of all our family friends because he thought I sighed at him. But anyway, after I can't find any clippers my girlfriend tells me to stop and relax. She told me not to go home if he's threatening me like that. I told her I didn't have a choice, I had work the next day my uniform was at home and since i had started my second job so recently I couldn't call out. After awhile of talking we decided to go pick up my clothes for work and to go back to her house since her mom told me i could stay with them for a little while. So I called my mom back and I told her what I was gonna do and she lost it
Mom: "No, come home!"
Me: "I'm not coming home to be shaved bald."
Mom: "Please just come home, I'll talk to him."
Me: "No, I'm coming to grab my clothes and staying here for the night."
Mom: "This will only make things worse!"
Me: "I don't feel safe there tonight!"
Mom: "Fuck you!"
click
I get in my car and tell my girlfriend to follow me in hers. At this point it is about 7:45pm. As we start driving my mom calls me back
Mom: "Please come home, I talked to him and he promised to keep it civil"
Me: "I'm grabbing my clothes and leaving, girlfriend is coming with me"
Mom "No she's not! Keep her away from my house or I'll call 911!"
Me: "She's here to make me feel safe"
Mom "If you think your leaving in that car you're wrong, that's not your car that's the car WE let YOU use!"
Me: "OK, girlfriend is in her car, so we'll just take hers back to her house."
My mom then starts going on about how this is going to make her have a stroke, if I don't come home she's gonna call an ambulance on herself, and that I'm putting her in a really bad position. Unfortunately, I eventually cave and tell her I'm coming home and hang up. I than call my girlfriend who has driving behind me the whole time and tell her the deal. She tells me not to but I tell her what my mom said about having a stroke and since she's had them before how it's very likely. She doesn't like the idea but I tell her to wait at the front of my neighborhood for atleast an hour, if she felt like leaving after that than she could but if I didn't call her at 1am to tell her I'm oki to call the police. She agrees and that's what we did. I walk into the house and my mom hugs me while crying. My sister is still confused on what's going on but after my mom's scene we go into my bathroom and she shapes up my beard a little (The only thing that really needed to be done) and about an hour later my dad gets home.
Things didn't remain civil like she said. He started yelling at me about how I never listen, threatens me saying me and him could outside and fight right now and says he's not afraid of jail time because he's served it before, says he's poured 10 years of his life into me and that he's going to get something out of it whether it's me getting a good job and supporting myself, or him kicking my ass, he reiterates the fact that he's not my dad and he never will be, (He doesn't let me call him dad, he makes me call him pops, that was the first conversation we had ever had and it was when I was 8) he tells me there only one man on this house and its him so if I wanna act like a man to go out into the real world and act like one and while I was in his house I am to do whatever he says because even if he asks me to do something, he's not really asking me, he's telling me to do it just in a nicer way.
While this is going on my mom doesn't intervene or say anything. He than tells me for my own safety to never yell at his wife ever again. I go downstairs to my room after all this and call my girlfriend to let her know I'm oki, for reference he started yelling at me at 9:20 and I called her at 11:30, I was standing there getting yelled at for over 2 hours. A few weeks later and I'm still at home, I'm very much so looking for a place to live but am stuck here for atleast a few more months. I have more stories and might end up posting them here eventually
Tl:Dr: I didn't get a hair cut so my dad threatened to shave me bald.
A small update to my previous post February 21, 2023
So I pulled my mom down during her lunch break to talk to her. Just for a quick preface, me and my mom work in the same hospital. She, like I stated before, is a nurse while I am just a barista at the café on the main floor of the building.
I asked her why she never stuck up for me when it came to pops and she tried to use every excuse she could. Saying "You need to let it go" I told her "I've been letting it go for 10 years now! And I deserve an explanation to why you would let a man who has told me from day one he is not my father and made me fear him rather than love him do what he has done to me for so long." She tried to say that if she intervenes that things would only get worse and he would explode. I told her "Good. Let him explode. Let his probably last daughter see him for how he truly is, and call the police."
She finally caved. She explained that she DOES NOT want to be married to him because of his actions. She said he won't let her put anything in her name. The house, the cars, none of it is in her name. I asked "Why not leave and use your savings to get by for awhile? I'm sure living in an apartment and getting a less expensive car would certainly be better than dealing with him." She admitted to me she used all her savings to get herself through nursing school.
Now I should say that the nursing school my mother went to was a bit different than a normal one. Rather than go through years of college, spacing out the classes they cram everything into one super high stress school year. The program isn't cheap but has an EXTREMELY high hiring rate at nearly 100% of students get hired into a hospital or clinic before they even fully graduate. My mom had done this program in 2020 while my dad was deployed and then covid hit. Me and my sister were stuck in online school but my mom was not. So her school work coupled with both her kids stuck at home and no support from my dad other than him barking orders at her over the phone stressed her out so much that she failed at the tail end of the school year. The class would kick you out if your grade dropped below a 70% And she unfortunately missed one too many questions on one of her last tests but the director of the program begged her to come back again the next year because she knew my mom could do it. It used the last of her savings but she did it but now has to earn back all that money.
She told me it's hard because now that she has a job, my dad thinks he can just buy whatever he wants. I've heard her get onto him multiple times for spending money on PlayStation but he always says "I thought the new call of duty weapon pack looked cool so I bought it. Whatever, it's MY money anyway." or how he instead of putting things in the amazon cart and talking to my mom about it will just now buy it if he feels like it. I told my mom that I can sympathize with that but asked why she never told me and rather made it seem like I was alone in my dislike for his actions. She told me "It's an adult situation." I said "Mom. I'm 19, gonna be 20 in June. I AM an adult. I have 2 jobs and even pay or help on some of the bills and groceries. You should've told me a longtime ago whether I was an adult or not."
She apologized and said she was ashamed of herself. She than explained that she understood that I was right and that I didn't need to deal with his bull sh*t any longer than I already have and that she would help me find a place. Even offered to help me talk to my friends family and see if I can't go back home with them after their trip as a temporary place to stay. But she asked that when I leave to not to do it in a super dramatic way and to just either leave when he gets deployed for a month in April or to tell him way before hand and to make sure there's no way he can try to shoot it down. She said there isn't anything she can do about the car and she knew he wouldn't let me take it but she offered to ask some friends and co-workers to help me move whenever I find a place and are able to leave.
So I guess mom is on my side. I told her I appreciate it but it will take longer for me to forgive her for letting him hurt me all these years and she said she understands and will likely never forgive herself for it either. I will update you guys with another post when the situation changes. Thank you all for your support, it means the world to me and feels amazing letting this off my chest.
Marked as ongoing as OOP hasn't moved out yet and said he'd update when the situation changes.
Reminder: I am not the OP.

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/Certain_Syllabubb
TIFU as I presented my bf with his cheating partner on a silver platter
Originally posted to tifu
Original Post Feb 21, 2023
I (f30) have a boyfriend of 3 years (we will call him Sam(m33) and in the beginning he lost his friend's group because of a fight so he was pretty alone but that wasn't really a problem as we were happy to do everything together.
Anyway he was in the military years ago and sometimes talked about his time there and his buddy which we will call Leo (m30). I sometimes made jokes about their gayness for each other as they seemed to be really close.
A few months back I wanted to surprise him and find Leos contact as I thought it would be nice if they could talk again as they lost contact over the last 10 years. I found him on Facebook and gave him Sam's email and he was excited and thanked me and told me he would write him. Sam was super happy to hear from him and was excited to meet up with him. He asked me if I wanted to come with him but I told him I could meet his buddy another time, they should use the time to talk and get to know each other again after all those years.
Everything seemed cool and they sometimes went for beers or watched hockey games and they got really close again. I was so happy because he seemed to be less depressed and actually went out again. I actually met Leo once when we all had breakfast together and he was a really nice guy.
A months ago I noticed that they met up more often and as happy as I was I was also a bit bummed because he had less time for me but it felt selfish to tell him that so I was happy for him. Then in retrospect I noticed that we had less Sex. Sometimes before we had Sex like 3 times a day and sometimes we didn't do anything sexual for almost two weeks. With two full-time jobs and my health problems it was always a weird "schedule" but I noticed it got less and less. Usually he would initiate it more often then I did but then I had the feeling it was always me who asked or tried to feel him up. Again I didn't talk to him like I probably should have and thought okay he is working more hours he is probably tired and also depression is always a bitch to deal with.
Fast forward to yesterday when I wanted to take a picture of our cat who was sleeping in a super weird and funny way I couldn't find my phone so I used his (we were always super open about our phones and have the same passcode) and I saw a text pop up with kiss emotes and curiosity got the best of me. I opened it and it was Leo who told Sam that he missed him and was excited about the weekend where they would meed again and told him he had a naughty surprise. I was shook and scrolled further up and my fear got confirmed as they apparently have been sleeping with each other behind my back for at least a month if not more. He came back downstairs so I put his phone back where it was and didn't say anything. I was so shocked. I went to bed early and said I had a migraine and he knows I then need darkness and no noise so he went to the living room to watch a movie with headphones. I cried and cried and cried and felt so much anger? I brought this person back into his life, I basically presented him on a silver platter! But on the other hand if it weren't Leo who knows if Sam was sleeping with someone else. Did he do it before? Was our entire relationship a lie? I never got the impression that he wasn't happy with us. Our Sex was amazing. I wanted to marry this man and have his babies. I feel so sick to my stomach. I haven't talked much with him today but I can still pass it up as my migraine. How do I even start a conversation about this? How can I compete with a man? Someone he has known for so long. Did they already sleep with each other when they were in the army? I am so confused and hurt and angry and I just can't comprehend all this.
I just need to get this out. Tomorrow I will think about what I will do.
Also I am sorry English isn't my first language and I am sorry if this is all over the place and has mistakes I am still bawling my eyes out.
TL;DR: I found an old friend of my bf on Facebook and urged them to meet again as my bf had no friends after a fight with his last friends circle and he cheated on me with his army buddy.
OOP ADDED IN THE COMMENTS:
Update in the comments on Feb 22, 2023
Oh wow this blew up. So to answer some questions as I feel so emotionally exhausted I can't reply to all of them but I read all of the comments and I am super grateful for all of you guys!
• we did talk about Sex a lot and very open and we had anal Sex but I didn't get the feeling that he preferred either to the other. I asked him if he wanted to try any butt stuff and I ate him out once and a little finger play but he never demanded more or anything. I didn't think there was anything lacking in our Sex life.
• I made an appointment for STD check but unfortunately it is on Friday and until then I have to wonder.
• I haven't talked to him about it yet. I don't think I can even start the conversation without breaking down crying. But I went to my mom who recently had an accident so me helping her out isn't even a lie. But I think he knows something is up as I haven't been as close and loving as I usually am
• the messages were pretty clear. I get that guys are a bit weird sometimes and my friend circle is exactly like some people here said their friends were like. If you didn't know they were straight you would absolutely assume they were gay.
• we live together and have at least another year on our lease. I might figure that out later as I am currently trying to run away from my problems
• I don't think I can stay with him even after we talked. Even if he would beg for forgiveness and I could find it in my heart to grand it to him. I just feel like he betrayed everything we were. He is my first boyfriend, the first person I put so much trust in after my family is always difficult and constantly disappointing me. I put my entire soul out for him and he crushed it. I feel like part of me is missing like a limb.
I will update once I talked to him. I can't run away forever, I know that.
~OOP UPDATED/EDITED ON FEB 23~
Edit: Okay it seems I don't even have to start the conversation. He came to my mom's house and wanted to talk. He told me all about it, how he and Leo were experimenting while in the army but it never really involved feelings. How when they first met again they were just buddy's but on a drunken night they started to fool around again and then started fucking. He said he is probably bi and that he feels super shitty that he broke my trust like this. He promised me that Leo has been the only man he slept with and that there werent any other women either. He also promised me they were always using protection. He begged me to stay together with him, to work on us. He told me he would cut contact with Leo. Would go to counseling, would do anything. I told him that I still love him but that I could never see him the same way again. He isn't the person I fell in love with. I also told him that the foundation of our relationship is broken. How can I be together with a person where I constantly have to worry? Is he sleeping with the mailman? Or my cousin? The new neughbour? Or whoever? Maybe I am being unfair but I have no trust left. We both cried a lot and I told him I still need time. I will stay at my mom's house for a while and then we will sort out our stuff. We already decided I will get Chico (our cat) and that he will help with whatever he can do. I feel broken. I still love him so fiercely but how could I live with that? In my opinion if you love someone with all your heart you wouldn't do shit like this. I feel like I am grieving a dead person. My heart is so full of pain and I am devastated.
Thank you to all you guys for your kind words and helpful comments. I read all of them and I took some of the advice.
I will probably walk away from this account as the constant reminder what he did and what people think about it doesn't make it any easier to deal with.
Maybe I will update once I moved out and got all my stuff together. I am thinking about leaving the city. My company has a different branch a few cities over and I could take that spot. Would also come with a tiny payment rise. But it would me farther away from my mom.. I don't know yet.
Anyway you guys all take care and again, thank you!
RELEVANT COMMENTS:
Consistent_Rent_3507

I’d like to understand what OP’s boyfriend and his past friends fought about. He lost all of them? I wonder if it’s somehow connected? Maybe he was more than friends with someone in the group on the down low and the friends dropped him when he wouldn’t be honest with OP.

OOP replied

It was actually a girl. He was interested in her before he met me and followed her like a sad puppy and she loved the attention (she was the center of that group) and once he stopped showering her in attention she got cranky and started talking shit. But that friends cirlce was doomed anyway as I see it. You can't just get a few people that are all new on the are and say "we are now best friends forever" that won't work. Maybe a few of them will stay friends but the whole thing had an expiration date.
But now that this whole shitshow happened who knows if this is really exactly what happened. I have no way of knowing. I am constantly questioning everything right now :(

n2oc10h12c8h10n402 commented

My first thought would be don't stay with a cheater. That's obviously your decision to make based on your life arrangements.
One thing you need for sure is to get tested. Being cheated on always brings the risk of STDs.
There's no competition, you can't compete being the person you got cheated on with a man or woman. It's not something you didn't do or something that was lacking on your relationship. It's the commitment you partner doesn't have and it's the lack of care he has for you. Someone who loves you, won't hurt you.
None of these is your fault.

OOP replied

I feel like if I hadn't brought this man in our life then all this wouldn't have happened. It may not be the logical thing but my brain is in chaos

I am not The OOP

This is a repost. OOP is not going to see your reply addressed to them.

OOP is u/throwaway23348765 and posted this on dogs.
Mood spoiler: happy
I left for work today with my small dog in her crate thinking she would only be in there for 3 hours. Now I can't come home and Now she will be stuck in there for 24 hours at least and I'm freaking out I don't know what to do [link] [15/12/22]
I feel extremely horrible and powerless now... I live in a remote community that is only accessible through a sky tram. To get to work I have to cross the tram and then I get in my car and head off to work.
This morning I got ready for work and put my small dog in her crate because it helps with her anxiety. I locked the door and left. My partner was supposed to be back from his job 3 hours after I leave so he let's her out when he gets home.
3 hours into work my partner texts me saying the tram broke down and it's going to take a couple of hours to get fixed... we'll a few hours go by and I get a call from the operator of the tram. He tells me they have to bring a crane in THE NEXT DAY in order to get it running again. He asked me if I can leave work early to get on a helicopter before it gets dark out so I can get home.
So I leave work and get to where the helicopter is going to land I waited for about an hour and then I'm told the helicopter can't take off due to fog and that they're going to have to wait until morning and hopefully the helicopter can take off.
I feel fucking horrible guys my poor dog has been trapped in there all day and will be for the night no food and no going out to pee I feel fucking awful and there's nothing I can do.
---
Comments from others in italics, from OP in quotes
Anyone else in your community you can reach out to go let her out, like a Neighbor or something?

House is locked up tight. My partner owns firearms so we legally have to. After this I'm getting a spare key and hiding it around the property somewhere incase something like this happens again

Do you live in the future?

Lol. It's a very small community of 15 people. Very isolated. A river divides it to everything else and they don't want to put a bridge in for 15 people because of cost.

It’s ok to feel bad but it’s out of your control despite your best efforts. The dog will be ok. In the future, plan for this same emergency so it doesn’t happen again. Off topic, how does someone move into an area only accessible by sky tram? Like how do you physically move your stuff there? I had no idea this was even a thing.

Ill explain, during the summespring time, there is a small ferry that can handle two vehicles at a time to go across. But in the winter the water is too low for the ferry to run. So everyone uses the ferry to drive across during the summer months and people go on the tram to get across.
It's a very old community from back in the pioneer days, and they used a ferry or train to get to the nearest town. Now it's just the ferry and tram. It also only operates between 6 am to 11pm... unless for medical emergencies. The population is too small for the government to consider putting a bridge in because of cost. But I would imagine the expenses of maintaining both the ferry ferry tram for decades is probably a whole lot more costly. Hope all that makes sense I know its out of the ordinary.

Can you contact local law enforcement? Can't hurt to ask.

Law enforcement and any emergency services are not able to get across at this time.
Even if someone were to go into cardiac arrest there is no one able to come.

Do you have a neighbor or family member that can get in if they really needed too. I would pay for a busted window if I had too for my doggies lol even if it's a pain it is at least a backup plan...

I've considered the window option but I live in canada in the middle of winter. A busted window I could pay for but freezing of the pipes and causing them to burst would be way to serious.

Any neighbors that can get in thru a window or something?

No way without breaking the windows, it's -30°c with the windchill currently and pipes will freeze.
The reason I decided to crate train her later in life was because of her separation anxiety. Back when I lived where I had neighbors nearby they would tell me she cried and yowled nonstop when I'd leave and would only stop when I returned home. Crating her made it stop entirely. But I would never leave her in there longer than 4 hours. Overall the crate has worked amazingly for her but at this point in time I'm not sure if I'll be doing it for a while after this.

UPDATE: I left for work today with my small dog in her crate thinking she would only be in there for 3 hours. it ended up being over 24.. [link] [16/12/2022]
First I got to let everyone know I'm home now!! And my little girl is okay! When I got in she was very happy that I was home. She definitely seemed stressed at first but has relaxed quite a bit. I feel so relieved now that I'm home with her!
Secondly, I want to give everybody a big thank you for being so understanding of the situation and offering advice. When I had initially made my first post, I was anticipating a lot of hate and accusations of being a bad pet owner. Instead the large majority offered me empathy and understood that the situation I was in was out of my control. Everyone assured me she was safe and going to be okay and it helped ease me nerves a bit.
When I woke up this morning, the tram operator told me it was still too foggy for the helicopter to take off. Then at 10 am he told me the helicopter was coming. I drove to where it was going to land right away, but then I was informed the weather conditions became too bad again. He told me though that mechanics were confident they could get it fixed in a few more hours. So I waited until then and now it's running!
I know a lot of people were very curious about where I lived because of how unusual the means of transportation is to get there. I don't want to give away the exact location but I live in a rural area in the north west of Canada. The community is small, about 15 people. And are completely isolated from everything because of the large mountains surrounding us and the river divides us from everywhere else. There's no bridge to get across the river. The government has to legally provide everyone a way of transportation but because they consider a bridge too expensive for such a small population they've provided us with sky tram/cable car and a small ferry that can take two regular vehicles at a time across the river. The ferry can only operate in perfect conditions during spring and summer. If the water is too high or too low the ferry can't operate and we all need to take the tram instead that only holds 5 people at a time. During winter, the water is too low and icy so the ferry gets pulled out for the year.
My partner and I will be getting a spare key made and we are going to give it to my neighbor incase such a situation happens again. I'm glad everything is back to normal and my animals are safe. I also have two cats that didn't even notice I was gone. And I have ducks, quails, chickens and geese but they all had plenty of water and feed still. My dog was the only one I was concerned about but she is perfectly fine and I will be spending the day spoiling her with tasty treats and belly rubs. Thank you everyone!
---
If you live in a community of 15 just let the damn dog roam.

She's a small dog and there's foxes coyotes eagles bears and cougars. Really starting to get tired of people thinking they know more than they actually do.

I’m so glad this worked out and she’s not too traumatized. Have you tried to kennel her again? It might take a little time for her to be comfortable in it again. And that’s okay, it was maybe a bit traumatic for her too.
Glad everyone is safe and healthy!

She's still going in and out of it to lay down but I haven't closed the door on her or anything

So how long was your dog in the crate? And can we see a picture of the good girl?

Unfortunately I left at 630 am, I was finally able to get home at 1200pm the next day..
here she is..

I'm still not OOP

I am not OOP. OOP is u/marriedleperchaun. She posted in AmItheAsshole. I added in paragraph breaks and names instead of letters for readability. I also added some periods in run on sentences.
Your fun fact to cover up spoilers: u/PhillytoLAGuy requested cuttlefish. Cuttlefish have three hearts and are experts at camouflage. Cuttlefish are highly intelligent, and are even able to count! (One study found that one month old cuttlefish consistently pick a box of 5 shrimp over a box of 4 shrimp.) Apparently researchers concluded that the cuttlefish’s ability to compare quantities is comparable to that of 12-month-old human babies and rhesus macaques.
Trigger Warnings: miscarriage, medical abortion; infidelity; verbal abuse
Mood Spoiler: Still sad but possibly hopeful
Original Post: March 11, 2023
Using a throw away because my sil knows my main.
So a little back story I (25f) and my husband Vernon (36) have been married for 5 years. It was arranged by my grandfather and his uncle, we are not American so it's common here. Vernon wasn't too thrilled about the marriage and he made it very clear because he was already in a relationship with Felicity. (30sF). Long story short Vernon, his family and Felicity did the most to make my life hell and my dumbass was stuck on the idea that one day he might change.
About 3 years ago I found out I was pregnant and I was excited but he wasn't given we only had sex a handful of times before that he got it into his head that it wasn't his, the baby had complications and I had to get a medical abortion. Not once did he or his family come to the hospital and I guess that opened my eyes and I just stopped caring. I stopped trying, I just stopped caring.
Early last year, he suddenly started caring, coming home early, calling me, bringing me flowers, it was quite uncomfortable for me. Then he tells me that he's had a change of heart and wants to try to better our marriage because he's developed feelings for me???? It's all fishy to me honestly, I wouldn't trust this man as far as I can throw him. He's been doing these little things and I just can't shake that there's a joke coming at my expense.
Now onto the story, it was my birthday last weekend and Vernon told me his family was hosting me a birthday dinner, I told him I wasn't comfortable with that and the last time I was at his parents they literally told me I was my babys complications were my fault and kicked me out coz Felicity was uncomfortable not to mention that they haven't apologized, just started acting friendly. I kept telling him no and he kept insisting, he let it go and I assumed that was that. I made plans and went out with my mom and cousins and he starts calling me asking me where I am, I tell him and he tells me that he's waiting for me uhhm what????
Long story short, he's family is mad that I skipped because they apparently wanted to apologize so that we could move forward and Vernon keeps saying he understands why I did it but has been apologizing for everything and nothing. last night Felicity called to cuss me out because they've left her high and dry and Vernon wants nothing to do with her so maybe they did want to apologize. I thought I was in the right but now even my cousins are telling me I was wrong for skipping, now am doubting myself AITA?
Relevant Comments:
About OOP:
"Yes I do work as a teacher, I don't make much but since everything in the house is taken care of by Vernon, I've managed to save up a sustainable amount. I can leave and there wouldn't be much consequences on myself, nothing physical anyway, it's my family that would suffer because me leaving would cause them to be shunned by the community, this means they won't be allowed in shops, they could starve and people would watch them because their morals would be put to question. Am looking into ways to take them with me to the next city."
Birth Control:
"Birth control isn't exactly a thing here because it defeats the whole populate the earth thing, so I only get one option which I don't completely trust but we haven't had sex in a year so but I have it just in case"
Why did his uncle arrange the marriage?
"Am sorry, I don't know how to add an edit to the post but Yes, his uncle is the head of the family and doesn't like Felicity because she's not from our culture. Vernon didn't go against his uncle because it would lead to his shunning, marrying me had benefits such as the house we live in and a piece of land in the farming areas, so I guess that was it. His uncle mentioned to the family that the only way the marriage would end was if I was to initiate it, I didn't know about any of this and everything has started making more sense now."
One last comment from OOP:
"Honestly I don't understand the elders reasoning behind our marriage, all I know is that I was of age to marry and had to marry before I was out of season. At the beginning I truly believed we could work it out because that's how most of my relatives marriages started out and they are happy now. After I realized it was a lost cause I couldn't leave because a divorce is unacceptable unless there is physical abuse. When F called me to cuss me out she spilled the beans about the house being a benefit of the marriage and the uncle not liking her because she's not from our culture, I plan on asking V or the others about more information because am in the dark and it's killing me, I want to make a well informed decision on my next step going forward. At this point am only staying because I don't want my family to suffer the shame of me leaving."
Mini update/edit: March 12, 2023 (next day) (also in comments)
wow! I wasn't expecting this to get as much attention as it has. Am overwhelmed and am sorry if I won't manage to reply to everyone. Thank you for your kind words and advice.
Some more info on my family because I saw repeating questions in the comments, my family didn't know about most of what was going on, I chose to not tell them, but they still found out were and are still willing to handle the effects of me leaving but I can't let them do that, everyone is happy and this would disrupt their lives greatly. I can't bring myself to that especially to my little nieces. A few hours after I made the post I decided to have a talk with Vernon after he came home from work. It went somewhat ok, I followed some advice in the comments about starting over on my terms. I asked him questions I needed answers to and he gave me answers. I wasn't completely satisfied but it's a start. I told him I would give our marriage a chance but he had to know that he was completely done with Felicity and would be completely on board with this, I told him to stop with the love bombing because it was making me uncomfortable, I told him I would absolutely not be having kids in the near future. I told him I was in no way ready to be his wife and we would continue with our separate rooms.
Surprisingly, he was on board with all of this and said that he wasn't a boy anymore and that he was getting older and he needed to sort himself out and make things right, I asked him if he only had a change of heart because he wanted me to take care of him in his old age and he said no, he said he realised that Felicity isn't what he's always wanted and started seeing her manipulate toxic ways (his words), he said he was willing to put the house in only my name (it's 40%mine) entirely as a way of showing that he is all in and would mess up of I give us a second chance. He said he was willing to give me as much space as I need. He said he'll have a word with his family about me needing time and space and taking baby steps Honestly, don't know where this will go at this point. I don't know the direction in which we are headed but am willing to try so I can have a free conscious. I've started making a back up plan to leave but thats in the worst case scenario I'll update if anything significant happens.

I am not OP; that would be u/throwralorei
I want to give credit to u/Direct-Caterpillar77 for the original BORU post. OOP's original post was trending at the top of relationships before being locked, and her first update was provided five days later. Her most recent update was posted on 3/12/23. OOP also misspelled defamation of character as "deformation" by mistake, but someone helped to correct the term she was searching for in her second update
Original Post: February 23rd, 2023
Hey guys. Long time lurker in need of some advice. My fiancé was recommended/given a training assignment some months back for a vacancy that would be opening, and he showed me a review at the end that he received where he received great remarks. However, to his surprise, he wasn't given the position, and he was the only person training for it. He's been feeling down the past couple of days, but he also told me something that I didn't know. A few weeks back, he was given an award in a meeting that he returned to his boss (same boss who recommended him for the vacancy) because he "doesn't like awards", and he never told me about it either. He also told his boss he "didn't appreciate being blindsided", and he admitted he was emotionally stressed from the meeting when he talked to him the same day. He also told him to never give him an award again, and he thinks that that's the reason he didn't get the promotion
When I asked why he didn't tell me about it, he said that work was his space and that it didn't concern me, and that honestly hurt. He also said he's thinking about leaving the company, and he's been there since he interned in college. My mom said to suggest that he talk to a professional about why he was bothered by the award/our relationship, but dad said I should reconsider because he "created a fan to walk into" that hurt his career. I want to see if he'll talk to a professional before reconsidering, but dad said I shouldn't even give him a chance. I believe I'm making the right decision by seeing if he's open to it (not just for job stuff but also for our relationship), but I want to ask if I'm going about it correctly
Update: March 1st, 2023
Before suggesting therapy, I asked him to further explain why he returned the award when everything seemed to be going well for him, and I want to remind you that he showed me a written review of his training assignment (that he worked for a few months) that came back with great remarks (albeit nothing about returning the reward that had nothing to do with it). He said that he viewed work awards similar to participation trophies that he "wanted no part of". But when I asked if his reward was that, he said it was a certificate recognizing him for his work along with training/assisting others when his boss asked him to sometimes (mostly on computer when someone didn't know how to do something, so he'd show them over Microsoft Teams). He specifically said it wasn't a participation award, but that he "viewed all rewards the same". He also said it'd make it awkward when he helped people in the future because "awards make people seem less genuine" and that returning it "showed he was down to earth". When I asked why he couldn't just accept the reward and do whatever he wanted with it at home, he said it was a gesture to "show he wasn't a management suckup" and that he'd be "the same person after getting promoted". He also said he saw someone lose friends at work "after crossing over to management's side" because it was an "us versus them" mentality, and he compared his gesture to the person who rejected the noble peace prize that he heard referenced in "Captain America: The Winter Soldier". However, he knew nothing about it besides the reference because he loves Marvel movies and didn't even know the guy's name. But when I asked if he regretted it since everything seemed to go well with his training before the issue he likely made for himself, he said he was considering suing the company because he was "treated unfairly", and he wasn't open to therapy because "he did nothing wrong". When I told him that it hurt when he said that his work life didn't concern me, he said there were "many things he said at work that I wouldn't approve of", but that it was "his space just like managers who talk behind coworkers' backs". But when I reminded him that we were engaged and incomparable to a coworkemanager relationship, he said I "wasn't supporting him" and didn't want couples counseling either, and that's pretty much how it went
The reason I spoke to my parents before we talked was because of an idea he floated in my first post that I didn't mention, and I want to explain it because some said I threw him under the bus to my parents, so I'll explain why. He said he was considering working a retail job in the meantime after quitting because he thinks he hit a "dead end", and he said he'd be "more respected" there too. The other reason I told my parents was because we were looking at a home to buy, but those plans have changed and he wants to stay in our apartment, and that was before he mentioned anything about suing the company. He said he "didn't mind making less" if it meant having more respect, and I was willing to try and work things out if he considered therapy or couples counseling. But now that he's refused and doubled down, I told him that I'm reconsidering, and he didn't like that and said I "wasn't on his side like his boss" (same boss who recommended him for the vacancy and gave him the award) and has been distant since. He's slept by himself on the couch and even ate dinner on his own the past few nights, and I'm trying to see if my parents can let me bring some stuff to their place come Friday. I feel like he threw everything away for no reason, got a great review on his training and made an issue out of nothing when there was none. Learning about everything he kept from me still hurts, and I might try to talk to someone myself. But it really hurts because he basically said I never knew him at him at work, and maybe that's just how he is when he's not with me
edit: This idea to reject the award came from "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" and the guy who was referenced (in the movie) for rejecting the noble peace prize from what he told me, but he didn't even know the guy's name or anything beyond "it came from the movie" because he's a big Marvel fan. He also said it was a "selfless thing to do" and showed he wasn't a "management/award suckup" to his coworkers who'd "appreciate a down-to-earth manager" when he crossed over into management. He also said it was "something selfless Captain America would do". He said he wants to sue because he was "wrongfully removed from consideration for the position for personally not liking awards despite a great written review on his training assignment" and that it would "help fellow employees who felt pressured to take management awards to move up" because he believes that "all awards are participation trophies"
As a result of trying to talk to him and see if he'd be interested in couples therapy, he refused to think that he did anything wrong and still plans to sue, and I based my reconsidering of the relationship on his willingness to get counseling. I will be trying to move everything to my parents on Friday, but he's been treating me as if I don't exist because he knows that I'm done. He's eaten dinner alone, slept alone, and barely says a word to me anymore because I'm "attacking him like his boss", so I'm just trying to get to Friday, but it's been hard because he's turned on me
Second Update: March 12th, 2023
Returning to this because a lot of people reached out and were helpful, and I appreciate everyone who did. I'm currently at my parent's, and my ex-fiancé was pestering me to move everything to their home before Friday when I eventually did, and it was really stressful. However, he did something that I didn't expect before I moved on Friday that I'm still dealing with, and a lot of friends and family know about it now because of what he did (before I got around to telling them). He made a Facebook post that was pretty long, and he posted it to Twitter too. Long story short, he addressed the coworkers about what happened with his promotion and said that many of them were likely wondering what had happened and that he wanted to explain "his side before the wrong people did"
He wrote that his bosses "wrongfully rescinded" the promotion because he told his boss that he didn't like awards, and he included the manager's name. He wrote about his conversation with his boss and how he "respectfully" spoke to him in his office "instead of refusing the award at the meeting" because he wanted to show respect. He also said that his manager previously knew about his "anxiety" surrounding awards and "chose to give it to him anyway when he knew it would hurt his focus", but he never once mentioned anything about anxiety to me. He never mentioned anxiety in the past, and he never mentioned that he spoke to his boss about anxiety too. He also left out what he told me about how he was "emotional" when he spoke to his boss and "said some things he probably shouldn't have". He left out the part about being "blindsided by the award" and "don't ever give me any awards again", and my dad thinks he's lying about having talked to his boss about anxiety to "look like a martyr". He thinks he made it up to draw pity , and the rest of his post made him think that too
When he wrote about how he was going to sue the company, he said he was doing it "for others who may feel pressured to take awards in order to move up" and that he was "fighting for them." He said it was "unfair of his boss to refuse him for mental health reasons he knew beforehand", and he "wanted to pave the way for others with mental health challenges". He also said he was inspired by NBA player Kyrie Irving (he's also a basketball fan) who refused to get vaccinated and sacrificed salary/backlash (the Brooklyn Nets didn't allow him to play for many games due to being unvaccinated) to be a "voice for the voiceless" for other people who didn't want to be vaccinated. And while he disagreed with Kyrie's stance on vaccinations (we are both vaccinated), he admired how he fought and forced the Brooklyn Nets' to play him and "cave" as they struggled in the standings/injuries and "showed that corporations would eventually cave to employees"
Like Kyrie, my ex-fiancé said he wanted to be a "voice for the voiceless who felt pressured to accept awards to move up at his job" . He also said he wanted to make management cave to him, and that was the reason he was "suing for the employees". He also wrote that I had "broken up with him" because I "didn't support his mental health condition just like his boss", but he never once mentioned anything related to mental health to me ever. Heck, he left out all the details about how he told his boss off, and my dad said he might be making it up to "create a case when he knows he has none or just wants to smear the company". Dad has also begun calling him the "fake Captain America" from Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and he showed me some clips about the TV show when I asked what he meant
Going back to my ex-fiancé, he also wrote he was "glad to find out I didn't support mental health before we had kids" which really surprised me because I suggested couples counseling together, but he told me he "didn't need it because he did nothing wrong". He also wrote that I "refused to have sex/sleep together after he opened up about his anxiety" when he was the one who opted to sleep away from me on the couch after he accused me of "not supporting him like his boss". He also said he was talking to someone he knew who was a union shop steward for advice, and he said there'd be more in the future too
A lot of friends and relatives called me and my parents in the aftermath of his post (mostly those who saw the Facebook one I was tagged in), and my parents and I have been telling them our side. I also received DMs from people telling me off for "not supporting his mental health" who I'm guessing are his friends, and some of them were really vulgar too. That only happened on my Instagram, and I've blocked a lot of them since because I didn't know them. But it's been stressful after he tagged me in his post, and I'm honestly tired of repeating myself to everyone. However, I don't believe in engaging him/drama on social media, so I've continued to explain to everyone who's reached out with the help of my parents. The other thing that sucks is how he called my job after I moved out and told them that I said a lot of "ableist" things about him about his mental conditions which wasn't true. And while I don't think it'll amount to anything, I had to speak with HR about it which surprised me. Dad doesn't think anything will come from it either, but he's been livid, and I am honestly too. Dad has also suggested a lawyer after how he called my job, and it's something we're investigating for maybe deformation (don't know if that's the proper term, but maybe something in the ballpark of what he's doing). I just hope he stops, but he doesn't seem to be from his post and calling my job, and he said that there'd be more to come too. I just hope he stops with me at the least because I could care less if he wants to sue on his own, but we will see what dad and I come up with on a lawyer
edit: I want to clarify something that many people seemed unsure about. Some people asked if he was really in the running for a promotion or had made it up. I saw a physical review that he brought home detailing the training assignment and the scores for the duties he performed (when it was done), and it was related to the position he was training for. The scores were really good, and he had no negative marks about the training (returning the award was unrelated to the training). His manager also took him out to dinner a few weeks before he returned the reward in regards to the promotion too
I also saw some confusing about when my ex-fiancé returned the award, and many asked if he returned it during the meeting to make a statement to his coworkers. He returned it after the meeting and after spending time at his desk where he said he was "uneasy", and that led him to go to his manager's office where he told him to never give him an award again. In regards to how he showed his coworkers he "wasn't a suckup", he said he told them in passing in the days after he returned it to his boss. The award had nothing to do with the promotion (he was training for) and wasn't a certificate needed for it. The award was given for how he helped others on Microsoft Teams through screen sharing when his boss asked him to assist others many times, and it wasn't related to his training assignment
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(Notable Comments)
u/Sfb208: "Your bf has ego problems. He seems obsessed by the idea that his Co workers should respect him because he 'sticks it to the man', has been clearly signaling to his boss that he isn't management material because he's concerned about being seen not to be a suck up, and is now surprised that his boss, who had previously considered him a good employee and attempted to promote his career through these opportunities and awards, is now hearing his message loud and clear, and removing his support for the promotion after bf publicly embarrassed him. Like, his boss publicly recognized ops efforts, and simply had that thrown back in his face, and for what? His colleagues are unlikely to view his actions with anything other than bafflement. Your bf is delusional op, and he needs help. His actions are self sabotaging and destructive. Don't let him drag you down too"
u/houseofreturn: "Everyone else is giving you good advice so I just want to bring up something else: The guy he's quoting from Winter Soldier is Nick Fury talking about Alexander Pierce (the guy who rejected the Nobel Peace Prize because "He said Peace wasn't an achievement, it was a responsibility")... Alexander Pierce turns out to be the VILLAIN of that movie. Spoilers, but Pierce is a Hydra agent (the coded Nazi fascist antagonist organization of the movies) and tries to/ is about to kill MILLIONS of people for the sake of "peace" before being stopped by Captain America. Like your boyfriends apparently a marvel fan, but looks up to the fascist, genocidal, maniac for his life quotes and work ethic? I mean he is sort of destroying himself for the sake of his own ego, while also taking you down with him (falls in line with a lot of marvel villains tbh). Cap isn't the one rejecting the award"
OOP: "Some others said I was wrong to get my parents involved too. I just felt I had to vent to someone who wasn't a mutual friend of ours, and I went to them because so much changed so fast. Telling me that work was none of my business, saying he wanted to cancel our plans to buy a home and take less money to work a retail job because he missed a younger environment from his first retail job in high school. It felt like so much happened so fast, and I didn't want any friends to cause drama and felt my parents were safer"

I am not op, the original op is Type-ADHD
3 january 2023
original post
My sibling is getting married this year in a different country on the same continent. It's a destination wedding; all the guests live in the same country as us and half are from the same state as us. The rehearsal dinner is on a Thursday, the wedding is on a Friday, and then they apparently have a full weekend of plans. It’s apparently going to be an intimate, adults-only wedding weekend. I have no problem with this. Apparently there won’t be a bridal party and I’m not obligated as a bridesmaid or anything. If they want keep it small, plan a full weekend of wedding events, and they don’t want kids at their wedding weekend, that is their prerogative.
I don't have much in common with this sibling and I don't have an interest in participating in events beyond the rehearsal dinnewedding. I’m also not leaving my 4 children (under 10, the youngest will be about 2) at home from Wednesday to Sunday while all of my family of origin are in a different country. I'm also not cool with leaving my husband home while I go to this wedding by myself. The wedding is small enough that really, I will probably only hang out with one of my other siblings who also has a kid.
Our current plan is to bring the kids with us, stay offsite in condo in a different town (~20-30 minutes away from where the wedding is being held), possibly with another sibling who also plans to bring their kids and participate in the same way, and we would either bring a sitter with us or get a sitter (yes, I absolutely have concerns about hiring someone I haven’t met) for the evening of the wedding. My husband volunteered to hang out with the kids for other events, if I wanted to attend, but we would also explore the area and make a longer vacation out of it. Essentially, not imposing my family on their wedding weekend, but making it so both my husband and myself would be able to attend the wedding and I would be able to attend a few other events too.
The bride said that it is her decision and non-negotiable whether our kids travel with us to the same country where they are hosting their wedding. The bride specifically made a comment that she was concerned I would make my parents watch the kids (No... I'm absolutely not imposing on my parents like that).
She suggested:

• that I leave my kids with my in-laws (they aren't allowed to babysit; we left our kids with them for a couple days and one of my kids had a significant stutter when we returned)
• that I divide the kids amongst my friends
• that I leave my husband at home to watch the kids
• that I leave half the kids with my husband and the other half with my in-laws

It would seem to me that they have control over who they invite and what activities they plan. I have the option to accept/decline some or all of the activities they have planned AND I don't think it's any of their business how I travel. WIBTA for my husband and I to have our kids travel with us?
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Update
Here is the background. Sister is getting married in Canada. It's an intimate, child-free, extended weekend, destination wedding. She thinks that it's within her purview to decide that my 4 kids aren't welcome to be in the next town over, being cared for by either a sitter hired in Canada or by someone traveling with us, during her wedding. I am not opposed to child-free weddings and have not asked my sister for any special accomodations or anything. We have used both of those options to attend other destination weddings without imposing on the wedding or other guests. After my sister freaked out at me on the phone and stuck her fiancé on the phone to back her up (full story on that below at **), I sent my sister a text stating:
We really wanted to come to your wedding which is why we tried to find a solution for our kids that was mutually acceptable. The reality is that we are not comfortable leaving the kids while both (husband) and I and Mom and Dad are out of the country. So, if it's not acceptable for us to all be in Canada at an offsite condo, with the kids having a sitter during the wedding and (husband) hanging out with them during other events, or bringing someone with us to watch them at the condo during the events, then we won't be able to attend your wedding, but we will look forward to (the family reception my mom is planning).
Sister responds: I understand that you may not be able to join. If you or you and (husband) end up finding a way to come to Canada without the kids, we would look forward to seeing you there. Please let us know by (date) so we can get a final head count.
I responded: No, you don't have the authority to dictate anything beyond who is invited to your wedding events. Good luck getting (older sibling who was planning to do the same thing as me) to attend.
Momzilla is PISSED that I'm not coming to the wedding. She has been telling me all sorts of untrue things about MYSELF: assigning me motives (you told your sister on x date to ruin her day**), telling me I should know details about the wedding guest list that haven't been told to me, saying I've been unkind to my sister (I haven't spoken to sister since those texts, but that's not out of the ordinary, and I have not been mean, the only thing I have told her is that she doesn't have the authority to tell me how to parent my children or decide who travels with me), telling me I didn't give my sister the option of us bringing someone with us (I did, twice: at the restaurant and on the phone call, plus sent the above text). My mom is attacking me like a flying monkey about this and I am so over it.
** That story is that sister asked me if I could go dress shopping with her. My mom and I drove to where she lives and when we picked her up, the first thing my mom says to my sister is "you have to tell (aunt) and (cousin) they're not invited to the wedding." Because her "intimate" wedding apparently would have only been immediate family and a couple friends, but my sister invited our aunt and cousin (who is like another sister and was one of my bridesmaids) to go dress shopping. I would have noped out of dress shopping had I known that up front. So when we were at dinner after dress shopping, she told aunt and cousin they weren't invited. I was super uncomfortable about that aand stressed about other things and I should have kept my mouth shut, but I mentioned that we'd be bringing our kids to Canada but not to worry, we wouldn't impede on anything because we were going to stay offsite and either bring someone or get a sitter there for them for all necessary activities and they wouldn't be anywhere near the wedding or any other activities. My sister turned frigid and told me that wouldn't be accepted and suggested we take it offline. So after we were driving home, she called (it was raining) and started telling me how unacceptable it was and that under no circumstances were my kids allowed in Canada during her wedding, etc. She and her fiancé both spoke very heatedly, and I calmly answered their rapid fire questions the best I could, while repeatedly telling them they don't have the authority to decide how I parent my children so long as I'm not imposing them on her wedding events. She said bringing them to Canada imposes on her wedding events. She made a bunch of suggestions (all are in the AITA post) about what I could do with my kids instead and told me that I should have known that I would be expected to do hair and makeup with her (I'm not in the bridal party and I hadn't agreed to anything) and that they have planned a full itinerary and that I was remiss for not asking about it when making our plans.
UPDATE 1/29: while I was out this afternoon, my mom stopped by unannounced with one of those bridesmaid gift boxes filled with a note asking me to be a bridesmaid and random crap like a eyemask that says "bridesmaid." It was from my sister, for me. She left it with my husband. Then, like 2 hours later, my mom texted me:
The gift that I brought over that was from (bride) is some thing that she ordered for you when she originally was planning to ask you to be a bridesmaid but she wanted to make sure that you got the gift anyway even if that didn't work out
UPDATE 2/5: I sent a text to the bride last Sunday asking what was up with the bridesmaid gift and clarified my understanding of the situation (that I offered two ideas of how to have my kids cared for in a way that was comfortable for me and that she told me I would have to find a way to leave them at home). I haven't heard back.
I also told my mom I won't be responding to her calls or texts and that she may not stop by my house without an invitation. I don't like the way she's assuming the worst about me and all the codependency stuff is really coming to a head.
But... The most juicy update is that the wedding date changed. It changed a week before the bridesmaid gift debacle and my mom didn't say a single word to me about it either when I was on the phone with her multiple times that week or when I was at her house overnight one of the nights. The fact that my sister didn't reach out with the new information means we're not invited, plain and simple. Now my brother isn't going either because he would have to leave for the wedding on his regular custody day--the literal day after his child's birthday--so the day he would be celebrating his child's birthday... and also miss a whole weekend of custody to go to the wedding... IF his ex would even go for that. So we're going to plan a trip together that weekend so our kids can celebrate their birthdays together, since one of mine has a birthday 3 days earlier than my nephew. Also, it's a formal, black tie optional wedding but apparently they've opted for TEXTING the information and relying on a wedding website instead of actually sending invitations. Best bit of information on the wedding website is that their "welcome event" is at a bowling alley. Because, you know, kids don't exist at Canadian bowling alleys.

**I am NOT OP. Original post by u/Top_File_1560 in TrueOffMyChest and Advice**
This is another post I find really interesting.
******OOP FINALLY UPDATED ABOUT THE PARTY*********
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Getting cheated on and getting a divorce made me realize how much I was missing from life. - 24 February 2023
I (33F) just wanted to share this with everyone who is going through a divorce or a heart break for a similar reason. I married someone who I loved with all my heart. We met in college and right after graduation we got married. I decided to stay home because my husband (34M) made a lot of money. I gave him everything. Supported his business, cooked for him, cleaned for him. Basically babied him a lot because I was in love with him. I thought if I was a good wife and nurtured him, he would love me back. And for like 5 years it was good. I discovered he was cheating on me when I found a random receipt from a hotel. I investigated a little and found out he was in fact cheating on me. And his AP was my bestfriend Kylie (31F). I was betrayed by 2 of my closest people. Kylie gave me a vague excuse that she didn't want to hurt me but she just fell in love with him. His excuse was "You do not make me feel special anymore. You have just got boring and let yourself go." I agree I was a little chubby back then because of my medicines. Also I was always tired to workout. I tried the path of reconciliation but failed. He left me for Kylie. This whole incident made me realize who are my real friends and who are fake ones. There were people who are neutral but only 2 of them, Josh and Marie were on my side and cut off Kylie. I was really devastated. I felt like without him, I was a no one. I lost my husband, my bestfriend, my house, my life. I stayed with Marie for a while. She offered me a small job in her catering business. I love food. When I was married, I would make different variety of food for my ex husband. Cooking was just very therapeutic to me.
During that time, Marie's mom gave me some useful advice. That is "An average human lives for 75 years. You are already 27. Are you that stupid that you want to waste the rest of your life being sad over a man who never loved you?" That thing really stuck with me. I have trust issues because of my husband's infidelity. I had trouble dating so I skipped it for a while. I focused on working on myself. I socialized with a lot of people while I was catering and made a lot of connections. I always wanted to start a business of my own. And since I loved creating food a customer I was catering for actually gave me an idea to start a baking business. My friends also helped me a lot. I build a pretty small yet successful baking business within couple of years. I started to feel more of myself now that I am free. I didn't realize I had so much free time in my hands because I wasn't busy taking care of a large human. My house was clean. No one is putting dirty laundry on the floor. No one is telling me to make something else because they are not in mood for a certain dish. Nobody puts dirty dishes on the sink. I started to embrace this solidarity. I know those things I mentioned are not something that is big but it was a huge relief. Moreover, no one questions me whenever I go out. I don't have to answer anyone before going out. I can spontaneously go on a long drive and I don't have to ask for permission. I learned a new language within my free time. I focused more on family and friends who genuinely love me.
And getting dumped has made me see the red flags I missed in my marriages. I used that as a lesson to steer clear of any trash men in my life. I dated few men but they didn't seem nice to me. But it didn't bother me a lot. I am happy being single and carefree. I see my divorce as a blessing to me rather than a curse. I do feel alone sometimes but recently I got a call from Kylie saying that she regrets marrying my ex. Because he never appreciates her and always puts the burden of everything on her. They have 2 kids now. But my ex doesn't help her with any chores. She is always tired and exhausted after taking care of 2 kids and an adult. It just made me realize that it would have been me if my husband didn't cheat on me with Kylie. I simply told her "well you said you loved him so he is your problem now. what's the point of coming to me?" That B!tch has the audacity to say she wanted a friend. I blocked her number. I don't want to be in their lives. Sometimes I feel like I missed my prime because I am now 33. It feels too old to start over. But I still have hope for love one day. I am currently dating a guy who is also divorced like me because his wife cheated on him. So we will see how that goes.
​
My ex-bestfriend, who married my ex-husband hired me to make a cake for her son's birth - 28 February 2023
I (33F) am in a bit of dilemma. You see, my ex-bestfriend (31F) had an affair with my ex-husband (34M) when we were married. Our friendship fell apart right over there. I didn't have any contact with her until a month ago. She called me and said she is not happy with her life. I have moved in with my life. I don't need their shenanigans. I run a small baking business. It is relatively new. I only take orders for cakes on occasions like birthdays, graduation or reunion (except for weddings). I have some plans to expand it and also have a dream to open a bakery of my own one day. Few days ago, I get an order from my ex-bestfriend. She wanted me to make desserts for her son's 1st birthday. And she doesn't just want me to make a birthday cake. She also wants a dessert section in the birthday party. It is a huge order and the pay is good. It will be good for my business. But as you can see she and I have a history. This made me question. Why does she want me to do it? My ex comes from a well to do family. He also has a high paying job. She could easily hire the best baker in town. Why does she want me to do it? My business is not that big. It made me feel like she is trying to grab my attention. Or just trying to sabotage my business. Or maybe she wants to talk to me after I shunned her the last time.
On the other hand, the business woman inside me says to take it, I know I can do it. The party is huge. There will be many people from affluent background. I can promote my business to those people. It will boost my revenue as well. I am thinking if I just avoid her as much as possible then it will be good. But I don't know. I am stuck in between. I need some good advice.
​
Some advices from the comments:

Take it. Make them the best cake you can. Show them that you’re not bothered y either of them. The best payback is no payback.

OOP: Hey, at least this way I will get some money considering I wasted my 20s on an ungrateful manchild.

I wonder if she is trying to annoy her husband? Just a thought.
Maybe she is trying to do good thing?

OOP: I talk to a friend of mine about it after I got the order. She is in a catering business too. She said that maybe my ex-bestfriend just wants to compensate for what she has done to me. Like a charity.

I don’t think there is a strong case not to do it. As you say, the money is good, the opportunity is great, if you’re serious about your business you take those opportunities when they come. The alternative is wondering ‘what might have been’ if you don’t take this order and that doesn’t sound like you.
The question is, how much contact to have with this person. You could reach out, speak on the day, or just make the order and keep your distance. That side of things is completely up to you.
The customer is always right about the product, quality, and service - but you are fully in control of how you navigate the situation beyond the professional.

OOP: I do ask customers about the kind of cake they want. So there is a lot of interaction. I could ask her to only contact me through email if she has any reference cake or any inquiry and only physically contact if necessary.
​
UPDATE from OOP's comments:
https://www.reddit.com/Advice/comments/11e5pyv/comment/jbddo5i/
I totally forgot about this post. A lot of people have been asking me what I decided. Sorry to disappoint you guys I accepted the order. It looked too good to pass it to someone else. Call me a greedy businesswoman all you want. But like you said ask for advance payment. I did ask for it. They paid in advance. I always ask for advance full payment. I also minimized the contacts with my ex-bsf. So far the interaction between us has been through e-mail and also I have an assistant who is a family friend. He knows my situation and is a middle man. I am documenting everything. I know I am taking a huge risk with this. But I am willing to see where it goes. Also I got to know hiring me was my ex-husband's idea. Not hers. My ex heard about my service from a colleague of his and wanted to hire me. I haven't talked to my ex about this. Most of my communications has been with my ex-bsf. Nothing big happened. I am still working on it. I will post a full update after all of this is done. Stay tuned.
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NEW UPDATE - 11 March 2023
Hi, guys. I have read your advice and suggestions. You all made some really good points. So, I decided to talk to my mom about it. I just needed her insights about this matter. She told me I should do what I want to do. My boyfriend also encouraged me to take the order. He says that if I had to stay to organize the dessert table he would be there for me. I took the order. And it turns out, it was my ex husband’s idea to hire me. Because one of his colleagues recommended my services to him. And it was sort of short notice so I had to rush this. Anyways, I kept it strictly about business. I did take the payment in advance just like some of you have mentioned. I always ask for advance payments. I mostly maintained communication through email. I have an assistant who is also a family friend of mine to handle all communications. My ex-bsf tried many times to meet with me in person, but I told her to just email me because I do have cake orders for other people too. I only had to meet her 1 time in person regarding the order. She sent me the details of the party over the email.
And like I mentioned it was a huge order. I didn’t just have to make a birthday cake for the baby (it is pokemon themed). There were also cake pops, cupcakes and macarons. Luckily, I had my friend Marie over for some help (yes, I did pay her). So, like usual I went to deliver the cakes and other stuff for the party. There was already a table set at the venue. My boyfriend, Josh (35M) came with me to support me and to keep me away from my ex-husband and ex-bsf as much as possible. As I was busy with myself, my ex approached me and said hello. Ngl, seeing him after so many years my heart just stopped. This man has given me the worst pain you could possibly give to a human. I am glad I held my composure. I also said hello back. He tried to have a small talk with me by saying that he is sorry about how things went down and what he said and also I looked better than the last time he saw me. Then he drops a big bomb, he said all these years he has thought of me, wondering what I was doing even though he is happy with his married life. I was silent. I didn’t say a word. He just kept spewing that he misses me and my cooking. My homemade french onion soup is still his favorite. He misses that every time he gets sick with a flu. I didn’t know what to say. At that moment Josh noticed that my ex was making me uncomfortable and he rushed towards me with a fake emergency. He asked if I was ok, I said yes.
After the table setting was done, I was about to leave, that’s when I saw my ex-FIL along with other guests. He noticed me and came to give me a hug. My ex-FIL is a very humble man. In fact he was the only man who was on my side when I was going through a divorce with his son. He looked really happy to see me and asked me how I was. He started to chat with me. I talked to him about my business and he gave me some advice. He even talked to my boyfriend. He called Josh a “pretty standard guy” (whatever that means). Ex-FIL was nice and said he would suggest my services to his friends too. He insisted that I stay until lunch is served. I said no a couple of times but he managed to convince me. I only stayed for 1 more hour or so. But I was fine. I did notice that my ex-bsf was eyeing me from the corner. I was fine because Josh was beside me the whole time. I chatted with some guests. They appreciated my service. I didn’t have any more conversations with my ex. I didn’t even stay for the cake cutting. I left the first chance I got but my assistant stayed to make sure everything was fine and for the clean up.
It was overwhelming for me. I saw some of my old friends and my in-laws. My MIL avoided me and some of my old friends just said hello. Later that day I got a message from my ex-bsf on my work email that she liked my service and that her guests really liked my cakes and desserts. She also said sorry. That’s not where it ends. I got to know from my friend Marie, who is still in contact with some of my old friend group that my ex-bsf is not happy with her marriage. When my ex and her are in public they would often fight a lot. They also fight on the day of their kid’s birthday. Tbh I just told her to not bring me the gossip about her. But the silver lining is I got a huge fat check lol. I can finally buy a new sugar printer or maybe a good quality oven. Also, I just want to appreciate my boyfriend Josh. He has been incredibly supportive of me. He has protected me from my ex and ex-bsf like a knight. I think he deserves his own cake from me. 😉 And I know a lot of you told me not to take it. But I guess I am just a greedy Mr. Krabs who cares more about the money rather than being classy hehe. But this is the last time I will be taking any orders from them. I know they have a 3 yr old daughter whose birthday will be in 2 months. I think they might try to hire me again. I will not take it if that happens.
P. S. Yes my ex-bsf did try to communicate with me during the party but I managed to avoid it thanks to Josh and my ex-FIL. My ex-FIL knows about my situation and my discomfort with my ex-bsf. He kept me busy with small talk.
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Reminder- I am not OP.

I am not The OOP, OOP is u/ThrowRA09876544435
(OOP has since deleted her account)
I (18 F) have apparently been dating my best friend (19 M) for an entire year but didn’t know until today. Need help asking him about it.
Trigger warning: sexism, emotional abuse, verbal abuse
Originally posted to relationship_advice
OriginalPost - since removed March 8, 2023
Original Post recovered with rareddit
This is going to be such a “suffering from successful” post, but bear with me for a second.
I’ve known him for 5 years, different classes and courses but same friend group. Over time, he has genuinely become one of the best people I know, and it’s only getting better everyday. I can’t lie and say he’s not my type; nerdy, charming, sweet, funny, flirty with the right amount of awkward. He comes pick me up from class. Plays hockey without being a douchebag to the skaters. And most importantly, gets treats for my cat. Multiple strangers have mistaken us for a couple, even close people like our friends, professors, and worst of all, my family. He’s kinda perfect, but I’ve never even thought of putting the moves on him, he’s never shown romantic interest in me, we’re friends, nothing more.
Or that’s what I thought.
Today, he was spending the afternoon at my dorm, something he started about a year now. We’re laying on my bed mindlessly watching sonic cartoons when he says (verbatim) “So, baby, where do you wanna go this friday?”
Matter of fact, this is the first time I’ve been called baby by him, so that kinda shocked me. Instead of asking why, I froze and was just like “What’s happening friday?”
He turns to me and KISSES ME (again, first time thing with us), hugs my waist and goes “Our 1 year anniversary, idiot. I’m making reservations.”
At this point, I’m frozen. I genuinely don’t know what to say. I’m gobsmacked. The dude I thought was my best friend, who never even showed interest in the dating thing, is under the idea that we’ve been dating for a whole year. I’m silent while he continues hugging me and scrolling on his phone, racking my brain thinking about what to tell him when his phone starts ringing. It’s his mom, which he puts on speaker and she deadass goes “Hi. Are you still with your girlfriend?” Oh, so now his mom thinks we’re dating too?! He tells her yes, asks why she called. She asks for his help with private stuff I will not divulge here, he turns to me and goes “Sorry, I’ll be back in a bit, sweetheart.”
I just nodded. I was just like “Alright, see you in a bit.” No questions, no screaming, just acceptance. He gets up to put on his sneakers and leans down to kiss me again, which I just accept at this point. It’s a nice kiss besides the fact that my mind is somewhere else. He leaves and I get a text from his coach “Tell (boyfriend’s name) to come tomorrow at 19, he’ll only listen if it’s you” Tf you mean only me?! You’re the responsible adult tasked with training these hockey players, why do you depend on me bringing him to you?! But that led me to a rabbit hole of finding out who knows we’re dating. Apparently, majority of the people I talk to think we’re dating, or if I’m being correct here, KNOW we’re dating, and just, have never mentioned it to me…
I don’t think it’s a prank solely on the fact that his mom called me his girlfriend. They don’t have the closest relationship. She is a very traditional, conservative and religious korean woman. Always serious and does not play around. When she realized early on that her son did not agree with many of her opinions, she stopped caring for him to the fullest, only keeping it civil for the rest of the family and friends. There’s nothing he could’ve done to have her go along with something like this, especially when she wants him to marry young with a nice korean girl, which I’m not. Also, he just does not seem like the guy to play with people like this. He might be dumb and oblivious, but not horrible.
I don’t know what to do now, I mean, he’s a great guy don’t get me wrong, and if the last 5 years are anything to go by, he would be (is?) a great boyfriend, maybe even in the future a husband. But, I’ve never looked at him that way, so I can’t say I love him. When this occurred, it was like the glass shattered and I saw how differently he looked at me, how he talked and acted, stuff that never changed since the beginning but for some reason I’ve never noticed. I can’t sit here and pretend I love him like that, I wasn’t thinking about him in that sense all this time. But, on the other side, I don’t want to hurt him. He clearly thinks we’ve been together for that long so he has to have strong feelings for me, and I don’t want to step on them and scar him like that.
I can’t just keep dating him though, something that I’ve apparently been doing for a year. I could learn to love him eventually, it wouldn’t take much to be honest, but it wouldn’t be fair to him or me. In my defence, who dates someone and just does not ask them about it. If the roles were reverse and a year ago something happened where I was like “shit, I love him, this was probably a date, we’re probably dating right now” I would’ve confirmed with him or at the very least said something for the following year, not only at the 1 year mark.
I just don’t know what to do. I’m scared and angry, disappointed in myself for not recognizing the situation sooner. Feel like I’m stuck between the sword and the wall. Last thing I want is to hurt him, but I also don’t want to lie to him. How should I go on about this with him?
TLDR: My best friend believes we’ve been dating for a year, alongside our friends and families. He’s never ask me, so now I don’t know the best way to approach him about this. Please help.
Update: Before you comment, I’ve sent a text for us to meet up and I somewhat already know what I’m gonna say to him. I’ll try and do an update post after the 48 hours pass.
RELEVANT COMMENTS
WishGullible5142

I can understand the not kissing, from a religious point of view.
I can understand the take it slow from a purely Conservative dating standpoint.
I can not on the other hand understand why you have no pet names for each other. Is anyone from Korea? How do you guys do stuff over there? Maybe it's a cultural thing and though a year was long enough to move the "relationship" along? How does he pinpoint the anniversary? Did any thing Change 1 year ago OP?

OOP replied

I’m white and he wasn’t born in korea, but his family still holds traditions even in a foreign country.
There were no pet names, because there was no relationship, it was never even suggested
nothing really changed a year ago worth noting, I went back to check on messages and Google photos, nothing important.
I’ve already sent him a message to meet up after practice, he said yes, so I’ll have a talk with him soon

Update - since removed March 11, 2023
update recovered with rareddit
Turns out he’s just dumb and sad. Or maybe crazy and psychotic. I did give him way too much benefit of the doubt.
I read a lot of comments and messages that were sent to me privately on what I should do. Big thank you to everyone, majority of you were nice and helpful. Also big sorry for the sweet lady wishing me a happy future marriage, not happening soon. And to the people saying it was fake, if I had created a good love story, I would’ve sold it to Netflix or HBOMax or Wattpad instead of being a loser and asking reddit for fake help.
I brought it up to my psychiatrist, showed her the reddit post I made, a few of the messages I’ve received and she basically had the attitude of “Hey, remember that great guy, well he’s a piece of shit now, so let’s learn about moving on and not reminiscing on a broken friendship” which I think is the best way to go in about this.
Now, tbh I don’t remember much because I wanted to cry from the moment he started talking. Also I was quiet and only spoke very little because I did not want to make a bigger scene than it already was. I just let him talk for a few hours and then dipped. Towards the end, he was shouting and unpredictable, people were looking and I just wanted to go home.
I decided that we should meet up in a public space. Before his practice, I sent him a text and asked if he wanted to meet up at a coffee shop we both know. He called, said yes and “You sound serious, should I be worried?” to which I said “honestly, yes, you should” He told me to stop joking and then went on to his practice. Fast forward a couple hours, I’m sitting there and he comes in, sits in front of me and thanks me for the food I ordered for him. We start eating. I’m a nervous wreck and he realises, which led to him asking “Are you really ok, (My name)? You didn’t seem good a while ago, and from what you said, I’m actually worried now”
So I lay it out on him. I ask him why he thinks we’re dating, why does so everyone else and what led to him thinking that. Now, he’s just quiet and I’m just looking at him not say anything.
Stuff after this is a bit fuzzy because I just wanted to cry. This next shit came very out of the blue for me as well, it´s just fucking weird looking back on it.
He said something like “I didn’t really think we could actually date if I asked you up front” to which I said “that’s how relationships usually work tho, you ask” to which led him on a tangent about women in general. Opinions that he shared with me and said to my eyes with no regret. What I saw in front of me was no longer my best friend of 5 years, it was a boy who grew up to be a man and to have a very damaging idea of women. Stuff that I could assign to immaturity, but he had nicer things to say when he was 14 than what he told me now.
I just interrupted him and asked what led him to think about women this way, since he never let his family, most predominantly his mother (tbh I don’t think even the most conservative women in the world would say what he said, but his mother still has some not so nice beliefs about women) influence him into these antiquated ideas. He was quiet for a while and that did give me some pity, until he opened that mouth of his again “You know, there’s these podcasts.” That let me know everything I needed to. “Oh so you’re a Tate fanboy now?” He starts arguing and yelling that it’s not him but that they know what’s right and wrong, how things should be and to be honest, I’m not really listening to him at this point, I just want to get out of there and cry. I’m listening, but nothing is registering. Some of the milder things he started yelling are about women and our relationship with food and how we should have a limited amount, how we’re so vulnerable and emotional, ready to blame men for everything and how we start yelling at every minute inconvenience (which is funny in hindsight), how menstrual stuff was A HOAX and that I was no doubt lying when I couldn’t walk from my period pains because “I wanted his attention” and that “no girl can possibly feel a greater pain that a man” He also said that when we were talking about his course - something to do with car parts - it was not “cute” and “sweet” of me (let alone women in general) to act dumb and pretend I’m clueless, because that does not make me more appealing (I genuinely don’t fucking know how a car works, my fucking bad)
I tell him that if this is all a big joke, it’s not funny. He interrupts me and talks about how he listens to these men but doesn’t tell anyone cuz he knows I and our friends wouldn’t agree, tells me I’m not a “perfect woman” (whatever that means) but that he would still like to date me but couldn’t tell me because I’d say no and “ruin his fantasy” hmmmm…
Im crying now, and people are noticing, so I just want to get out of there immediately. I tell him (not verbatim, but along the lines) “You’re so fucking stupid, (Name)! You genuinely could’ve dated me, if only you had asked. You could’ve had everything but you started listening to opinions of guys who have nothing. How sad can you be to pull a stunt like this instead of asking like a normal person?” He starts yelling that I’m wrong and they know what is right, starting a whole rant that I don’t have the strength to listen to. I stand up, start walking and he grabs my arm. More people are staring. I tell him to let go and he only does when I threaten to call the police. I left telling him to never speak to me again.
I am now home. I’ve blocked him on everything and told some friends what happened. They were all shocked by how he acted and what he said. One guy did tell me “He was always easy to influence tho”. I asked why they thought we were dating and they told me it was how we acted like a couple (I guess that one is on me) combined with the fact that HE TOLD THEM YES WHEN THEY ASKED and since the behavior checked out, they just never thought to talk about it with me. I’m not responding to any of them right now.
To be honest, I’m moving cities in a few months with my family. I used to cry about it nonstop because I’d have to leave all my friends here, including him and that was the last thing I wanted. Now, I’m kinda glad I don’t have to worry about bumping into him. I just feel distraught, like, that was a nice friendship, it was a pillar of my childhood and now it’s just gone.
He said and did some nasty things, even if it was in the span of a few hours. If up until moving he comes up to me personally or tries to pick me up from class, I’ll repeat that I do not want him in my life anymore. If push comes to shove, I’ll call the police, not that I’d think they’d do anything tho. I’m also sharing my location with both my older brother and father; yes it might be a bit “delusional” and not needed, but you never know.
He was a great guy and we did have a good friendship up until he decided to view women as objects and date one without asking because “he deserves it” I just can’t stop crying. I really thought I knew him, and for him to be able to spew those words and opinions at me like that, stuff he’s always been against from what I remember, it was shocking. It’s only been a few hours but it’s already weird not having that constant text or call happening. I feel like it’s kinda empty but I don’t want someone like that next to me. The worst for me is that I see no change. He has no sisters and his mother does somewhat think that way as well, and so does his father. Maybe coach could help, but idk.
I just feel “betrayed ???”, I guess. It feels stupid to say but it’s true. I mean, I get men like this every single day, every girl does. It goes from professors who know me to drivers who are seeing me for the first time. Comments vary from just telling me I’m pretty to more gruesome stuff, I’m used to it. I just never expected it to be someone so close to me, that I trusted. I don’t know when he started thinking like this but now it has me feeling all gross and dirty. If he thinks like this about me and never said it, I don’t even want to know what he thinks about our mutual trans friend, what his opinions are actually like when he’s always been nice and respectful to her.
It does help me chuckle a bit that some of the things he said were just so textbook misogyny that it seems he learned them on a joker sigma instagram account. That is so stupid it’s kinda hilarious if you omit the part where he said rape is not a real problem.
So, that is that. I thought I had a nice friend by my side, but guess not. Never trust a guy, even if you grew up with him, they’ll disappoint you eventually.
EDIT: You know what, fuck this, some of you guys suck. I thought this was a subreddit to help and give advice and yet im still getting dm´s over this being fake and overall clowning me. Like, im sorry if i write in a weird way, but this shit did happen. Do you guys only believe women when they show up dead in the news? I know it sounds insane, it also did to me. But please mind your words, if you're not gonna say something helpful or nice, don't say anything at all. I'm already having a horrible time with all of this and to have reddit men up my dms saying i lied and discrediting me cuz its not possible he'd do that, shut up, please, im begging you. Should have never posted this here to begin with, might just delete it altogether since apparently men only know how to point and laugh at a woman's experience
I am not The OOP

Originally posted by u/throwraintimacyhelp in relationship_advice and TrueOffMyChest on Feb 16, '23, updated Feb 18th and March 11th.
Trigger Warning: Cancer, Death of a loved one, Grieving
Original post Feb 16th
How do I make my (25f) boyfriend (23m) comfortable being vulnerable around me?
I’ve been with my boyfriend for about 2.5 years now, relationship has been great for the most part except for his inability to talk about negative emotions. He’s the sort of guy to just fob it off constantly. He mentioned before that he hasn’t spoke about anything like this except for with his mother years ago. My friends have (to my dismay) referred to him as a robot to me. I obviously shut them down straight away.
I’m quiet introverted myself therefore struggle to make him feel like I’m a safe person for him to be vulnerable with. I don’t know the right things to say. He has a real mental block on being able to talk about these negative things in his life. During arguments He’s described it as a ball in his throat whenever he tries to and is simply unable to. I’ve never seen him cry. When I can see he is visibly down I try and encourage him to share with me but he just lies and says nothing is up.
His family just found out that his mother has cancer (late discovery) and treatment isn’t going to do anything. It came as a real shock to them and I know it’s effecting my boyfriend majorly. She was the only person he’s ever been vulnerable with and now soon she’ll be gone. Then he’ll have no one. I love this guy so much and want to be able to be there for him as he is for me.
I was at work when they found out and by the time I got home he had already left to their house. I’ve spoken to him on the phone and he sounded unbelievingly rough. He’s due to be coming back here tonight. I think now is really a make or break time to show him he can be vulnerable with me. I think if he goes through this bottling everything up alone then he’s never going to feel comfortable expressing himself like that.
I’m really nervous about how to handle this being introverted myself. Are there certain things I should say? That I should do? What would you like your spouse to do if you were in this situation? I genuinely believe that once he’s managed to speak once he’s going to find it much easier to do in the future.
2nd Post 2 days later
My boyfriend cried in front of me for the first time and it made me feel a type of way, is this weird?
I’ve been with my bf for 2.5ish years now. He’s never been comfortable talking about his emotions. The only person he’s ever confided in was his mother when he was a child/teen. Some people refer to him as a robot. Obviously in the past I’d expressed my desire for him to talk to me about things that are effecting him but he just fobs it off. We’ve fought about it in the past and he has said he just cannot get the words out.
Earlier this week his family found out that his mother will be passing very soon. As in potentially a couple of weeks even. It came as a surprise to all of them. I asked for advice on another sub earlier in the week about how I can make him feel comfortable being vulnerable around me. I’m rather introverted myself so I was worried I would mess it up. Some kind people commented other types of intimacy I could try instead of words. One that stuck out to me was offering to wash his hair. Idk why, just feel like I’d love if my partner offered to do it for me when I was feeling down.
Well when he eventually came home he looked rough as anything. I’d already made dinner so we sat down to eat it but we pretty much ate in silence. He rarely even looked up from his food. I asked if he wanted to talk and again he fobbed me off. Once we’d finished I asked him if he’d like to shower with me, it would have been a couple days at least since he’d have been able to have one.
I dimmed the bathroom lights & put some relaxing music we both enjoy on the speaker. Got the shower nice and hot, gently helped him undress & had him sit on the bench thing under the water while I finished undressing. I joined him on the bench and slowly washed him everywhere,taking breaks to rest my head on his or whisper something to him. i spent a while massaging his head as a i washed his hair. I kept kissing him on the lips, forehead, neck & occasionally embracing him. Rubbed his shoulders and places I thought he’d be aching after being up and about for 2 days. There was nothing sexual about the atmosphere, it was a whole different type of intense intimacy, It’s difficult to describe.
He’d hardly said a word during all this and he looked like he could cry any min. I wasn’t sure what to say, I didn’t want to pressure him into anything so I just looked him in the eyes, smiled and said “it’s ok”. Once we were done we both sat there for a while on the bench under the water, not speaking just enjoying each other’s company. I kept running my hand up and down his back, across his cheek or head. just trying to make him relax as much as possible.
Once I dried him and myself off, we got into bed and I stuck the tv on, I was half watching it and half playing with his hair. I asked if he wanted to talk about anything and he shook his head. I could tell he was really upset despite him trying to hide it. Maybe 20 mins later I could see him literally on the verge of tears, I rolled to my side and put my arms around him pulling him into my chest, that’s when he started. The tears began to flow and he sobbed and sobbed.
He was squeezing me so tight sometimes it wasn’t easy to breathe. I could feel the years of bottled up emotions flowing out. He continued crying harder & it broke my heart. He said something about his mum but I couldn’t hear as it was muffled. Seeing the guy you love like that, clinging onto you as though you were going to leave whilst he let it all out hurt my heart. I felt so bad for him I had some tears myself. I just held him tight and kept whispering how much I loved him, that it was ok, I’m here, I’ve got you etc. Even when he eventually stopped sobbing he continued to have his arms wrapped around me so tightly with his face buried in either my stomach or chest. I continued just comforting him until he fell asleep. Usually I don’t like cuddling when sleeping but that night i held him all night long. I just couldn’t bring myself to let him out of my grip.
It’s hard to explain the way I was feeling during this, obviously terrible that he was going through this but at the same time I was so happy / relieved, Is that weird? It was an emotional experience, seeing the guy you love more than anything show negative emotion on that level for the first time. I remember almost very detail of the night. It’s etched in my memory. I haven’t bought it up to him yet, I figured maybe it’s best to let him talk about the evening when he feels ready? But then again i also want to be able to tell him that it was ok and a good thing he did. I think he’s a bit embarrassed that it happened so don’t know if he’ll bring it up. I hope he does though. I’ve read some women say that once they’ve seen their man cry they loose attraction. It seems bizarre to me, if anything I feel even more attracted to him then before. It’s like it has amplified my love for this man. I never want to let him go.
Thanks for listening to me, I’m sorry it’s so long, I perhaps could have made it shorter but I thought everything in here helps paint the best picture of the evening and therefore helps anyone in giving me accurate advice. I just needed to share it with at least one person and there is no way i would speak to anyone we know irl about my boyfriends vulnerability
20/02/23
Thanks for all the kind messages guys. I wasn’t expecting such a response. I’ve taken on board all the suggestions you so kindly made.
I got mixed messages when it came to talking to him about it. Someone suggested a text or a note which seems kind of in the middle so I went for that option.
I left a little note on his bedside table before I went out on Sunday. I outlined that I enjoyed our shower time & spending intimate time together like that, I said that I don’t expect him to bring it up if he doesn’t want, that I know how hard it is for him to speak about those things, but I’ll be here for him if he ever does. If he decides that he wants to write something, I’ll read it, that I love him more than he can ever imagine. I said that I’d like him to feel free to ask me if I can “shower” with him whenever he needs (a Redditor pointed out that calling the whole act an easier name to say may make him more inclined to let me know when he wants to do it again).
I didn’t expect any response from him on the topic tbh, later that evening though he handed me a small note before going into the other room to play his game. I won’t go into details as it was only for me to read but one line stood out to me the most, “I don’t have the words to express my gratitude but I think you know, thank you for making me feel human for the first time in so many years”. The whole thing was so sweet I cried a few happy tears. I’m dreading his mothers passing but I’m hoping he’ll let me be there for him, even if it just a shoulder to cry on.
3rd Post, 3 weeks later
Sorry this will be VERY long but it’s not something I can discuss with anyone in my life and just talking about tough experiences really helps me process them.
Well some of you may have seen my previous regarding my boyfriends mums Illness and my attempt to comfort him despite him being rather emotionally “constipated” all his life.
Despite our experience the previous night he didn’t really show any emotion or want to be comforted in the previous weeks. I suspect he may have been slightly embarrassed about that evening. Whilst I reassured him about it I didn’t want to push the subject and make him regret doing it in the first place.
Unfortunately a few days ago his poor mum passed. I managed to see her a couple of days before and my boyfriend saw her the evening before. Once he found out he shut himself in his office for hours. I tried knocking several times but never got a response. I could hear him moving around in there so I knew he was physically ok. Late in the afternoon he eventually came out and sat down with me to watch tv. Neither of us said Anything but he looked rough as can be. I placed my hand on his knee and we both just sat there watching.
I was kind of panicking because I couldn’t think of anything to say that would make any difference to his pain. I got him to eat something and we just sat there. A couple of hours later he said that he was going to shower. Originally I just said alright but then maybe 5 mins later I realised that he probably wanted me to shower with him again but didn’t feel comfortable asking. Kind of kicked myself for not thinking to offer him it earlier. Guess I was so caught up in thinking about what I should say that I completely forgot that I don’t actually need to say anything but can show it instead. I undressed and joined him, it was a similar experience to the previous shower. It was a very intimate experience. Although I obviously don’t enjoy the reason why we were doing it, I very much enjoyed taking care of him.
Once we got out I again dried him off and I walked & tucked him into bed. Now this next part might be a tad controversial but me and him both smoke cannabis occasionally. I normally will not allow any to be smoked in the house as personally I think the smell it leaves is unpleasant and grubby. On this occasion though I figured it would help him sleep and so got one of my pre rolls. We both smoked it in bed whilst watching tv. He looked really upset and I was honestly surprised he hadn’t cried so far. Some users previously mentioned that I asked if he was ok too much so I made sure not to this time and didn’t press it.
I turned out the lights and we both tried to get some sleep. I could hear him sniffling a bit so turned over and curled up against him in his arms. I didn’t say anything just layed there with him. I fell asleep pretty quickly but my cat woke me up maybe an hour later and he was still awake. I moved up and swapped to being the one doing the holding. I rubbed his back and kissed his forehead. He just suddenly began crying. Not just the normal day to day tears you see from some people, these were heart broken tears. I don’t think I’ve actually ever witnessed anyone cry that hard in real life. It’s a sound I never want to hear again. The pain he was feeling must have been insane. Again he buried his face in my chest and just cried and cried . I could literally feel him shaking. We were lying there for hours. I had my arms around him and one leg over him. he was squeezing me so tightly the whole time. He would occasionally drift off loosening his grip on me in the process before waking up, starting to have some more tears and almost grabbing at me, pulling himself into me again. As though he was afraid he’d wake up and I wouldn’t be there. It was heart breaking. Every time I’d just squeeze him back and whisper that I’m there or something similar. I’d kiss his head and rub his back until he drifted off again. He never stayed asleep for long though.
He properly fell asleep after maybe 3 or 4 hours of this drifting. and I stayed awake for maybe an hour past that just holding him. In the morning I woke up first and when he woke he lay there for a moment before the tears started flowing again. We stayed in bed all morning just embracing each other. A user mentioned before that two people, lying naked together being vulnerable is the ultimate intimacy and honesty now I couldn’t agree more. I’ve never felt so close to someone. I was feeling so many emotions it was intense.
He’s cried in my arms a couple more times since at Random points of the day. Whilst I’m obviously devastated for him I can’t help but be so so grateful he’s willing to allow me to be there for him. Crying in daylight out of bed is a huge step from only allowing himself to do it once in a dark bedroom. I’m honestly honoured that he trusts me so much. Hopefully he continues to allow me to be there for him in whatever capacity possible.
Today I saw a tiktok video where a girl was mocking an ex for crying infront of her and it enraged me. I cannot begin to imagine how these people think like this, to have someone willing to be as vulnerable as possible in front of you, to be Comfortable asking for help in their darkest hour and then Turing around and fucking mocking them for it?! It’s disgusting and I am so so so so glad I am not one of these awful people.
Anyway that’s it out, just reading it back I can see how insanely long it is! I’m sorry. If you took the time to read, thank you. Don’t need any advice, just helps me immensely to talk about this with someone.
OOP's boyfriend obviously has a long road of recovery ahead of him but she was able to help him open up and let some of the grief out, just as she had hoped, so I am flairing this concluded. This was a very personal story and I am reposting it with the intention to fill our comment section with love and support for OOP and her boyfriend.
Reminder, DO NOT comment on the original posts or contact the original poster. I am not the original poster. This is a repost.